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Foreign.
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I’m Chris Tompkins. Welcome to the Shaping Our World podcast. My goal is to invite you into a conversation that will leave you more confident in understanding and inspiring the young people in your life. Each episode we talk with leading experts and offer relevant resources to dive deeper into the world of our youth today. Today we have Dr. Tenelle Porter on the show. Tenelle is a developmental psychologist whose research explores the nature, origins and outcomes of intellectual humility, especially as it pertains to teens. Her work has been featured on the BBC, Vox and the Washington Post. And she brings a powerful academic background with degrees from Oxford and Stanford, Stanford, along with postdoctoral fellowships at UC Davis and the University of Pennsylvania. She’s now an associate professor of psychology at Rowan University. What exactly is intellectual humility and why is it so important? For young people growing up in a world that often rewards being right over being curious, that’s what we’re talking about today. This conversation offers a lens into how we can help teens become more open, thoughtful and and resilient, especially when faced with uncertainty, disagreement or change. Whether you’re a parent, educator, coach or mentor, I think you’re going to find this discussion really inspiring.
[00:01:30.280] – Speaker 2
So let’s dive into our conversation with Tennille. Before we meet our guest, a quick word about an opportunity at Muskoka Woods. Starting as a staff member here, I found it to be more than just a job. I discovered a pathway to personal and professional growth. We are committed to intentional staff development, providing training and building a network that can propel your career forward. Imagine working where you’re nurtured to grow with access to amazing facilities and staff care events. If you’re seeking a role that prepares you for what’s next, visit jobs.muskokawoods.com for more details. Now let’s get into the heart of our show. Welcome Tenelle. It’s great to have you with us.
[00:02:21.360] – Speaker 1
Hi Chris. Great to be here.
[00:02:22.640] – Speaker 2
Yeah, Looking forward to this conversation. Really interesting topic we’re going to dive into. A lot of times we have really broad conversations. This one’s a little more specific. So I’m really interested to dive into some of your work. But before we do that, I would love to for our listeners, just to get to know you a little bit better. So what shaped your world when you were growing up? When you’re a teenager, when you’re a kid, what were your biggest influences?
[00:02:45.890] – Speaker 1
Such a great question. I would have to say books and teachers. Books and teachers were really influential for me. I can think about reading Romeo and Juliet for the first Time or memoirs by Maxine Hong Kingston. Even Priscilla Presley’s memoir, Elvis and Me books teachers that helped. You know, I got a great education, so huge influence on my life. Love school or not always, but started to love school in high school. So definitely that shaped my world service as well. You know, I was involved in the Chapel Hill United Methodist, a youth group in my hometown in Wichita, Kansas. And we had just this wonderful youth leader. I look back on him now and just he gave so much time to a bunch of teenagers. And one thing he did was took us on a service trip to Taos, New Mexico, one spring break. And, you know, we. We loaded up a van, a big van of my friends, my brother, a couple of his friends, and drove across the country and worked for Habitat for Humanity for a week helping to build a house. And it was such a wonderful way to spend a spring break.
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To get this time, like contributing to something that was greater than ourselves really shaped my values and what I try to do with my life. So those are a couple for you.
[00:04:19.860] – Speaker 2
In March, we had taken over 30 of our high school students to the Dominican Republic to do a service trip to build a house or two homes, actually, for families. And I still hearing a bit of the afterglow of that and all that they’ve experienced and how it shaped their world. So, yeah, service trips are. Can be a really big part of shaping your world as a kid. Broaden your horizons, help you see a little bit more how others in the world live and let you feel like you can actually do something to make a little bit of a difference. So that’s great, that’s encouraging. Tell us a little bit about your world today. What’s shaping your world? What do you do for fun? Help us get to know what are the things you enjoy in your life right now.
[00:05:05.560] – Speaker 1
You know, something that’s really shaping my world right now. I have such a great class. I get to teach students, they’re in school to become clinical psychologists, so they’re going to be therapists or researchers. And it’s just such an incredible class. They’re teaching me so much about social media, what it’s like to be young and be on all of these platforms and how that shapes their world. They’re, they’re, they interact with the readings that we have for class. They’re helping me understand the kind of clients that they’re working with, the youth that they work with, that they see in their kind of internship practises and all kinds of things going on there. So I learn a lot from Them, and that is part of my job. Just lucky that it gets to be part of my job, I guess.
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So tell us a little bit about your work and kind of how it intersects with the world of young people beyond teaching.
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Yeah, so I do teach as part of my work, but I also do research. And a lot of my research has been about teenagers. And with teenagers is a time of life that I really am fascinated by and was a really important time in my life. So I try to understand how we can help teenagers thrive across all these different contexts that they’re in, in their families, at school, in their community organisations. Part of what we’ve been learning about and discovering in my lab is this idea of intellectual humility and what the role of that is in helping young people kind of thrive again across all those different contexts that they inhabit.
[00:06:50.250] – Speaker 2
I wonder, before we dive kind of into your research, I’m curious, you know, you’ve been teaching, you’re working with students. What has changed in the world of young people? Like, what are therapists and folks like yourself talking about when it comes to, like, how our world’s really different from, say, when you grew up or when I grew up? We talk about this a lot, but I’m wondering if you even have a unique perspective into the world of young people today that’s slightly different or has changed a little bit, or it’s a little more of the same, but with a different flavour or intensity.
[00:07:28.210] – Speaker 1
Excellent questions, like, definitely have questions myself on this, but I, you know, I don’t know when you grew up, but I myself was a teen in the 90s. We didn’t have social media and social media is a really, really big deal. It’s like where young people go to sort of map out entire sets of relationships and it can bring a lot of, you know, it has a potential to bring kind of connexion and just be like a fun place to connect and stay, stay connected with people. But it also comes with a lot of baggage and, and downsides. And that’s a huge change. I would say too, just that the youth today are more inundated with information than I ever was. I mean, the stats now are that on average, teenagers are spending about five hours a day on social media. And, you know, whether that’s TikTok or whatever it may be, and they’re getting a lot of information on those platforms and not all of it’s true and not all of it’s good. Some of it might be, but so how you, as a, as a young person, you know, you’re Trying to figure out who you want to be.
[00:08:53.280] – Speaker 1
And you’re also trying to sort through all this information, like how do I know what to believe or what might be true? And that’s just a much more complicated landscape of information than it was when I was coming up. You know, we had like Oprah, we had MTV or whatever. You know, you had a few things on network television, but. And the Internet was starting to get going, of course, but it’s not near at the level that kids are experiencing today.
[00:09:23.700] – Speaker 2
No, we, we had magazines. Right. Like that’s where you culture. Oh, yes, 17, teen bop and all that stuff. And you know. Oh yeah, you’re right. If we, we had to talk to our friends, I was maybe a bit, bit older than you, late, late 80s, early 90s. You know, you had to use the rotary phone to call people and talk to their parents and ask if they were home and. Yeah, yeah, we’ve, we’ve come, we’ve come a long way for that. And again, I’m dating our interview. But the show on Netflix, Adolescence, if I’m not sure if you’ve seen that.
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It was so powerful.
[00:10:02.320] – Speaker 2
Yeah, pretty powerful. Yeah. Even from a therapist standpoint in one of the episodes. And even just the integration with social media and young people’s worlds and how they live. And it’s just a fascinating, I think a pretty good picture of that for parents and other people that are interested in young people and the lives that they live. But let’s dive into your work a little bit. Your work focuses on intellectual humility and a lot of your research applies to young people as you’ve, you’ve talked about. Can you tell us what intellectual humility is? How is it different from like being open minded? What’s the kind of definition around it before we really unpack it?
[00:10:46.750] – Speaker 1
Well, I have to say in the spirit of humility that you, you know, if you got like 10 different humility researchers in a room, they’re going to give you like 20 different definitions of intellectual humility. So I’ll just say not everybody agrees on exactly how to define it, but there is some consensus that intellectual humility really involves this kind of recognition that our knowledge is partial, that any one person, they know some things, you know part of all there is to know. You see and understand part of the full picture, but you don’t know everything there is to know, even about things you know really, really well. So intellectual humility is really just that recognition that we have intellectual limitations, that we don’t know everything there is to know. And that we’re wrong sometimes. And I think the essence of it is just that somebody could try to be open minded, which is like, I’m going to give a fair hearing to these different views, but never take that step of self reflection and looking back on their own knowledge and their own beliefs to recognise limitations that they have. And that really that willingness to kind of look at yourself and reflect on your knowledge is a hallmark of intellectual humility that helps set it apart.
[00:12:15.580] – Speaker 2
Maybe this is from my own, you know, armchair perspective. I wonder if open minded is like even a disposition that I feel like I’m curious and I’m interested in, whereas intellectual humility is me even recognising that I actually might not have all the answers or perspectives. You know, one’s kind of, I feel like I have to do it to learn, but still being pretty resolved in that I think I already know what I know. And the other is just a real sense of. Yeah, willingness to say, I might not have all the pieces together to this and a real recognition. That’s where I, as I’m hearing it.
[00:12:56.890] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I love that.
[00:12:58.410] – Speaker 2
So, I mean, we might be able to draw the line sort of, but from your perspective. And what does the research show around? Why is intellectual humility important for young people, adolescents in particular? Why is it important for them to develop or learn to become intellectually humble?
[00:13:20.560] – Speaker 1
Because, you know, it wouldn’t have to be this way. Right. You know, there are lots of things that are important. Maybe this isn’t the right thing to think about for a teenager, somebody who’s young, who’s just trying to strike out on their own in a few years and. But I think there’s some reasons to believe this is important and really important at this stage of life. So there are just some things that are facing adolescence at this developmental stage that intellectual humility can really help with. So we see young people, something that’s important for them is a sense of autonomy. They need to. They just have this drive, and I remember this when I was a teenager, to be their own person. You need to kind of start to develop your identity, forge your values, you know, sort of separating maybe a little bit from your parents and just striking out in that independent way and leaning a little bit more on peers.
[00:14:17.420] – Speaker 2
So.
[00:14:17.810] – Speaker 1
So with this drive for autonomy and independence, which is great, they can come with some vulnerabilities, especially in the kind of information era that we’re living in. So some of the research shows that teenagers are even more vulnerable to conspiracy theories, for example, than adults are. But Intellectual humility, which again, encourages this kind of reflective thinking about ourselves. Just like you said, like, hey, this might not be the full picture here. Hold on, let me ask some questions. Questions. Let me find out more that can help protect people from falling in these rabbit holes of conspiracy theories and misinformation. So that’s one way as youth, you know, are developing their independence, becoming independent decision makers. This, this virtue and habit can help them make better decisions and lead them towards a path towards truth rather than.
[00:15:15.190] – Speaker 2
Something that’s not, that’s really insightful. I probably would have never kind of made that connexion to that. So, yeah, that’s really helpful. You’ve studied this and worked at some pretty prestigious institutions. How did your own academic path or your own interests shape how you think about humility and learning and maybe got you into this subject to begin with?
[00:15:41.280] – Speaker 1
I was 27 years old and I moved out of my home state of Kansas for the very first time. And I moved to Oxford University in England. And I just was so intimidated when I got there, just thinking, wow, these people know so much more than I do. And I, you know, everything was new and, and it just meant so much when somebody would have a kind of genuine humility. Somebody who I knew was, was really smart and well educated and successful when they could show a little bit of humility, that just really reminded me or helped me feel more comfortable with what I didn’t yet know and was trying to learn. So I noticed it. Then I went on to study at Stanford and in all these places, what I felt at least was that sometimes people just want to try to look like they have all the answers. People can sometimes just pretend that they know and understand. And that is a way to sort of fake a level of competence in an environment where being competent is really valued and important. But in those moments where people were willing to show vulnerability and say, well, I don’t think I have this quite figured out, wow, that was when the real learning could happen.
[00:17:04.660] – Speaker 1
And I would say that definitely happened in all of the places that I’ve been, a student or a researcher, when we could get through those sort of masks that we were wearing to look like we had it all together and just really be honest. That was when we were going to learn something new and that’s when things would get exciting. So this intellectual humility, you know, recognising that we have more to learn and being able to show that to the world, that’s really beneficial.
[00:17:32.830] – Speaker 2
I noticed a little earlier when you were talking about it, you talked about it like being of value and like a habit or a practise or behaviour. And I like that. And how do we encourage intellectual humility in kids, both as them holding it to be a value and also kind of putting it into practise? What does that look like?
[00:17:55.630] – Speaker 1
We still have a lot to learn about this, which is great, but I think that what we’ve discovered so far, there are something like three buckets of strategies to encourage intellectual humility. One of those is relational modelling. This, showing this, valuing it in our one on one relationships with other people. We see that in our research when a teacher shows humility, it makes students, and we have real data on this now, it makes students a lot more comfortable to show that humility themselves and they learn more as a result. So if you think about as a parent, what are those moments when you could model intellectual humility? Like, oh, I don’t know, but let’s find out. Something like that. There are individual kind of strategies too to help open people up to this idea. So one is encouraging a growth mindset, which is just the belief that our abilities, our intelligence, they’re all malleable, they can all be developed. And when people are in this growth mindset, believing for example, that they can get smarter as they work hard and gain more experience, this kind of growth mindset really opens people up to showing intellectual humility.
[00:19:09.630] – Speaker 1
They become more comfortable, you know, revealing what they don’t know. Because, gosh, if I don’t know it, I can learn it and get smarter. I just say, like the final bucket are sort of socio cultural strategies how we might create a whole context or culture of a school or a camp, for example, or even maybe on the level of a family of what are we really about? What, what do we value here in this culture? We’ve learned about that too.
[00:19:36.650] – Speaker 2
So are there environments in your experience like classrooms or learning environments or even like family cultures that more readily promote intellectual humility? Is there kind of a way to describe where this kind of happens more regularly than other places?
[00:19:54.490] – Speaker 1
Yeah, we are learning about that. And one thing we’ve learned is that when an environment really values, say being like a genius or being really, really smart, when, and you know, there are certain academic subjects that are kind of like this, or you think of hobbies like chess, or you think of physics or math, or really prestigious competitive environments, these environments where it kind of, they, it kind of gives you the sense that the people who do really well here are like the brilliant people, like they’re geniuses. That kind of culture makes it harder to be humble, makes it harder to express intellectual humility. Because people start to worry, you know, since I need to be a genius to succeed here, well, if I look like I don’t have it all together, people might not think that I’m a genius. It’s gonna compromise my chances for success. So that’s a counterproductive culture, that sort of brilliance culture. On the flip side, we find in research that creating a learning culture where learning and growth are the most important things, that. That really lends itself to intellectual humility. And we saw that when teachers working with middle school students, you know, gave their students opportunities to really engage in the active thinking of a lesson.
[00:21:25.300] – Speaker 1
Not just sort of, hey, memorise this and then regurgitate it to me exactly as I have told and get a, you know, super high marks. But rather, like, what I really want you to do is, is really deeply understand this. Try to put this in your own words now. What do you think? So these sorts of learning and growth cultures, you know, students will get kind of caught up in. In learning and they begin to experience learning, which is. Feels great, it’s fun. And it becomes a virtuous cycle and where it gets easier and easier to ask more and more questions and show that humility.
[00:22:04.410] – Speaker 2
Do you feel like where we are today, we are more willing to practise intellectual humility than maybe previous generations? I mean, I don’t want to answer my own question, but for me, I. I feel like, like for my grandfather and my dad or my mum, there was more pressure in to be the expert, to be the one that knows. And I feel like that’s kind of changed a little bit. There is a little more openness to saying, I might not have all the answers or let me find out, or what do you think? Is that kind of changing culture? Is this generation of young people more open to intellectual humility?
[00:22:45.050] – Speaker 1
Well, I love that vision that is so hopeful. And now that you say that, like, maybe and yes, let’s go with yes, because I think. I think I know what you mean. And we see lots of models of collaborations now and people, you know, forming teams and moving to different careers throughout their lives so that they’re continually learning new things and, and also a bit more globalisation, if you will, so exposure to more diverse views and perspectives and with all of the information that we’re exposed to as well, I think it can really expand your perspective. So, yes, yes, that’s such a hopeful vision that this generation is growing up in the conditions that make it really ripe to develop intellectual humility even more than in generations past.
[00:23:44.130] – Speaker 2
And again, this is just anecdotal from my life experience. You know, I wonder the connexion to strength as well, you know, kind of my Gen Xers and beyond the idea, the model of to be strong is like to know everything and to be in control and command. And I feel like that’s changed a little bit, like what it means to be strong. It isn’t always you have to have the answers yourself, but you can find a way to bring the answers to the table. I just wonder if there’s a connexion to that. I know that’s true for me, like to. As I get into organisational leadership, I don’t feel the pressure to always be the person to know everything. But my job is to make sure knowledge comes to the table and that we get the best outcomes. And that’s probably a generalised, this is probably a broad generalisation, but I do think the cultural definitions of strength have, have changed over definitions and become a bit more open. That may find this idea of intellectual humility a bit more of a home, just kind of building off what we were talking about.
[00:24:55.020] – Speaker 1
Yes, I love that.
[00:24:57.180] – Speaker 2
So maybe flipping it upside down a little bit. Is there any downside to too much intellectual humility? Like can we be too humble? Will that hold kids back from maybe asserting themselves, trusting their instincts, being a bit more declarative in what they know? Does it push them to shy away a little bit? Is there any downside to this?
[00:25:20.300] – Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s such a great question and it’s something that I think a lot about. And where I’ve landed is that when we teach intellectual humility and seek to develop it in youth or at any age, part of that teaching needs to involve instruction in how to balance this. So on one end, you don’t want to become overconfident and arrogant. That’s going to lead to socially negative outcomes, going to lead to worse decisions. There are lots of reasons that we want to avoid the kind of arrogance and overconfidence. But on the other side you also want to avoid being too deferential, being, you know, caught up with how many limitations you have, being sort of like excessively attentive to them and never trusting yourself, that’s just a crippling place to be in the sense that you. It could be sort of paralysing with too much self doubt or too much attention to limitation. So we definitely don’t want that either. What we want is something like walking on a slack line. We want that balance that comes in the middle, that’s neither too overconfident or too underconfident. Humility is that kind of wise and virtuous balance.
[00:26:41.030] – Speaker 1
Striking that balance takes wisdom, it takes practise, it takes guidance. Parents, teachers are all really important and we’re all kind of on our own journeys with this too, let’s be honest. Like, this is a lifelong learning thing for us as well. And I think guiding our youth through what we’ve learned about this is going to be important and is just going to be part of it. It’s going to be part of developing this in its most virtuous form, in its most helpful form.
[00:27:11.360] – Speaker 2
You’ve mentioned it a few times and. And just kind of in that last little bit, just about as parents modelling this a little bit, I’m even thinking about in the relationship with kids and how we’re navigating the world they live in and trying to. One of the temptations we have as parents is to, like, always fix and give answers to things. What might this look like? A little. Maybe a bit more. Some specifics for us as adults to practise this, modelling it not just kind of in our own lives, but in our relationship with our own kids.
[00:27:50.240] – Speaker 1
I would love to hear from anybody listening about the ideas that they have. I think we could put together a great resource. But, you know, the way this comes up in my own life is sharing times with my spouse that I failed to have intellectual humility. And those can be kind of funny moments.
[00:28:09.070] – Speaker 2
Yeah.
[00:28:09.470] – Speaker 1
Is talking something through. You know, somebody said this and then I thought, well, that. I don’t think so. But then I started to wonder, like, did maybe they have a point? And I. So I think you kind of begin to practise intellectual humility yourself in your own thinking, and then just kind of pull back the curtain sometimes and show your kids what that thinking looks like. I also think that, you know, when they ask a question and you don’t know the answer, that becoming more aware, kind of part of it is becoming more in touch with the real limits of what you know. And once you’re in touch with those limits, being honest about those limits, like, huh. Well, I, you know, I’m not sure about that. Well, here’s one idea, but I, you know, what do you think? Or we could look this up and not. I think you’re right and I feel this too. And it makes sense that sometimes you just want to be like, yeah, it’s just this way because it reduces complexity and.
[00:29:16.170] – Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
[00:29:17.050] – Speaker 1
And sometimes there may be moments for that but there are also moments where the complexity is really beautiful. We want to lean into that and just show, like, we don’t have all the answers and we’re still okay. Yeah, we’re still okay. And there are places we can go to learn, and there are still, like, mysteries, and that’s just life. We can be okay.
[00:29:39.250] – Speaker 2
Just to maybe add to that, from my perspective, I think a lot of the points of contention between parents and kids are on things that inevitably you get in this dialogue, like, you don’t understand. And as parents, we’re like, no, you don’t understand. Because I was a kid, I’ve lived it through, I’ve been there, done that, wrecked it. And let me tell you about all of my learnings and wisdom from that thing that you’re experiencing today. And I think if we have intellectual humility, we’ll approach those conversations really with this disposition that, like, actually, things have changed. Like, parties operate differently than they used to. Like, the playground runs differently, school runs differently. Like, things are different. And rather than us just espousing the things that we’ve learned down to our kids, it’s having that disposition that maybe we don’t know what they’re going through, like, we think we do, or maybe we don’t know how that thing works, whatever, that maybe it’s even social media, as you talked about earlier. We might think we know that they don’t need to be on TikTok, or that, you know, this doesn’t work that way, or, oh, it’s really simple.
[00:30:59.610] – Speaker 2
You just need to go to that teacher and do this. Why haven’t you done that yet? And it might not work that way for that teacher or for that school, because it’s not the same as when we grew up. And I always find, you know, asking the question, you know, tell me more about that before I kind of dive in with my solve or my fix, or it’s actually easy. You just do this. I think having that curiosity, as you mentioned earlier, and being able to say, tell me more about that before we just kind of lay down the law and say, that’s not the way it’s going to happen. I think we have a lot to learn from our own kids on what it means to grow up today. And I think having that disposition will help us parent better and will probably get us out of a lot of points of contention that might not even necessarily. We still need to parent. We still need to set boundaries and have those conversations. But having curiosity first about what’s going on and how things work Today, I think is probably a pretty helpful disposition to have and again, models for us.
[00:32:05.760] – Speaker 2
You’d be surprised in other things when you’re working with your kids through them, if they start asking you the question back. Trying to understand the things that we know and where we come from. I wonder if that’s something we could offer up as well.
[00:32:20.730] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I think that’s exactly right. Help me understand that first step. Help me understand. Let me listen. Let me really listen. Like, let me, Let me not assume that I know what I’m gonna hear or that my narrative of what’s going on is definitely right. Let me try to just take a breath and really listen to what they’re saying. I think that would help everybody. Yeah.
[00:32:47.480] – Speaker 2
So what are the, like the real world impacts of a generation of young people that have been raised to be intellectually humble?
[00:32:56.280] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I think could be in a lot of ways. I would go with two, two big ways. One, more progress and discovery. I think the more we can kind of become less defensive about what we don’t know, the more we’ll be able to kind of push into the unknown, ask new questions, discover new things. So I see greater discovery and progress as a result of raising a generation to be intellectually humble. And also I see a future of better relationships. Something that rings out loud and clear from the research is that intellectual humility really helps with relationships. Just like we were saying, helps you listen, helps you be more accurate in understanding somebody else, helps you listen to people who disagree with you and understand them better. There are just so many ways in which this benefits us socially, helps us be more cohesive and kinder to each other. So I think we’d see better, better relationships which are so important for, you know, health, well being and everything else.
[00:34:17.590] – Speaker 2
Before we kind of land the plane and get you to share some opportunities and resources. I, I couldn’t agree with you more on some of those positive impacts that, that this can have. You know, I think humility in general is a great value and developmental asset to be encouraging in, in young people and humility across the board. You know, a lot of people have referred to humility as not thinking of yourself less, but thinking about yourself less often. You know, kind of putting other people and prioritising others in a space. And I think intellectually is a great way to kind of, to look at that. And I’m really intrigued by this topic and I think it’s been a great conversation. Can you suggest some resources or practical tools for parents who want to nurture intellectual humility in their children. How can they find out what you’re doing in your work and any other books or resources you can maybe point our way would be really helpful.
[00:35:26.160] – Speaker 1
Sure. So I worked with the Character Lab back a few years ago to put together what we call the Intellectual Humility Playbook. And it’s a really short document. You can find it on the Internet if you Google Intellectual Humility Playbook. And it just talks about three simple strategies, ways to enable intellectual humility in your house, ways to model it, and ways to celebrate it. And if we could do those three things, we’d be wow, like, well ahead of the crowd. That’s not a good expression. But we’d just be in great shape to model it, celebrate it, and enable it. So folks could check out that Intellectual Humility Playbook from Character Lab.
[00:36:17.270] – Speaker 2
That’s great. And thanks again for your time. It’s been such a good conversation and people can look you up and see the work that you’re doing. And I’m sure many of our listeners will be downloading that workbook. I know I’m going to be looking through it. So thank you so much for your time and the work you’re doing. It’s been a great conversation today.
[00:36:39.210] – Speaker 1
Yeah, likewise. Thank you, Chris.
[00:36:41.530] – Speaker 2
Well, that’s a wrap on today’s episode and what an engaging conversation. If you were intrigued by Dr. Tenelle Porter’s insights into intellectual humility and how it shapes the way young people learn and you want to explore more conversations like this, visit muskokawoods.com you’ll find a blog post for every episode of Shaping Our World that is packed with highlights, key takeaways, and a link to listen again. And while you’re there, explore how Muskoka Woods is creating life changing experiences that help young people grow in confidence, character and connexion. Speaking of Summer camp, Week one is just around the corner and if someone you love is attending camp, you’re probably wondering what in the world to pack. Well, we’ve got you covered. Check out our website for helpful tips on what to bring and how to get your camper ready for the summer ahead. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this episode with someone, someone you think needs to hear it.
