[00:00:12.760] – Speaker 4
Well, hey, I’m Chris Tompkins, and this is the Shaping Our World podcast. My goal is to invite you into a conversation that will leave you more confident in understanding and inspiring the young people in your life. Each episode, we talk with leading experts and offer relevant resources to dive deeper into the world of our youth today. Today, we have Fiona Goy and Poppy Go on the show. Fiona and Poppy are the moms of two remarkable kids with exceptionalities. Fiona has two adult sons, and her youngest, Ezekiel, is a Special Olympics athlete and a Muskoka Woods alumnus. When Ezekiel was diagnosed with autism at two years old, Fiona gave up her career in marketing and communications to invest in his development. In doing so, she garnered a wealth of resources and began her journey to help and advocate for families who have children with special needs. Today, Ezequiel is 19 years old and attends a vocational training program in York region. He works part-time as a merchandiser at Shoppers Drug Mart, where the inclusive franchise owner and store manager regard him as a valued member of their team. Fiona believes that sports and camps provide great opportunities for people with special needs to learn important life skills, so she dedicates her time as a parent volunteer with the Special Olympics, Ontario, and Ezekiel volunteers at Muskoka Woods for one week each summer.
[00:01:32.550] – Speaker 4
Poppy Go is the mom of an adult son in the autism spectrum, Anthony. She and Fiona met at church and bonded through their shared goal of advocating for their sons and other families with special needs. Like Fiona, Poppy made the life-changing decision to leave her prolific career in management consulting and became the CEO of her son’s development. Throughout her journey as an advocate, Poppy has built a portfolio of expertise and experience in helping other families with developmental disabilities through her work with local agencies, nonprofits, churches, schools, and long-term care. Her goal is to help her son create valued roles in his supportive community so that he can live with purpose and dignity. Today, Anthony is 24 years old and is a chef who has been running his own business for seven years. He also teaches cooking classes tailored to children, youth, and adults with developmental disabilities. Through his business, he has worked with charities across Ontario, including PC Children’s Charity, Autism Ontario, Big Spoon, Little Spoon, and more. He’s also the author of a cookbook called Culinary Celebrations Around the World, which is a collaboration with Big Spoons, Little Spoons University of Waterloo, to raise awareness of autism while teaching people on the spectrum life skills through cooking.
[00:02:52.300] – Speaker 4
I’m so interested to hear what they both have to say not only about raising kids with exceptionalities, but also about helping kids set and accomplish big goals. Let’s welcome to the show, Fiona and Poppy.
[00:03:04.830] – Speaker 3
It’s great to have you, Fiona and Poppy. Thanks for being here.
[00:03:11.230] – Speaker 1
Thank you.
[00:03:12.310] – Speaker 2
Thanks for inviting us.
[00:03:13.920] – Speaker 3
It’s great. It’s lovely to have the both of you with us, and you two have a very unique story, and we’re excited to hear that today. I wonder if you both could talk a little bit more about your families, each of you independently, specifically about your sons and their exceptionalities and when you discovered their challenges, and what are they doing today?
[00:03:36.530] – Speaker 2
Well, we are a family of four. I have two young adult sons, the younger of whom is Ezequiel. And he has autism. He was diagnosed since he was a toddler. At that time, he was very much in his own world. One of the difficult points in my life was when I had tried to play with him with his Thomas trains, and he was not interested to play with me. He turned away and brought all his trains to a different spot in the house. That was a defining moment in my parenting, and I wanted to see how we could build a better relationship and work on his autism. So It was very helpful when I met Poppy in Church. We were serving in the Special Needs Ministry, and she has very kindly shared with me all throughout her life of how to overcome some of the similar challenges that we were facing. I think I’ll hand it over to Poppy to talk Anthony.
[00:05:01.410] – Speaker 1
Thank you, Fiona. You’re very kind. Chris, if I may, I would like to start from now and then go backward. My son is an adult now. He’s his own man. He’s very capable in running his own culinary business. The business is his career, his job, and his livelihood while inspiring and helping others in their journey, living with special needs, and to create valued roles in their own community. So at this moment, I work with my son in his business, and we work with people of all ages, from children, teens, adults, and also elderly. Our goal is to raise awareness on autism and other developmental needs through our work, whatever that may be. It can be cooking program, catering, writing cookbook, or our other engagement with the community communities, government agencies, nonprofits that support families with special needs, and also long-term care. Our goal, like I said, is to inspire and encourage families with special needs to show that they can build their own circle of support and establish valued roles for their special needs loved ones. Maybe some will need extra support given their lifelong diagnosis. Some may need less support, but the goal is the same.
[00:06:30.410] – Speaker 1
Is to feel belong and appreciated in their community and live a life of dignity and purpose. The diagnosis is autism. As you know, autism is a complex diagnosis because, first of all, it is a spectrum. Each person is different. Secondly, it is multifaceted. It impacts neurologically, behaviorally, socially, communication and biochemical. All of these play a role in successful outcome. I can say this now with clarity because it is a hindsight. More than 20 years ago, when my son got the diagnosis as a toddler, the research was not there yet. I had to do my own research, educate myself in order to find the best treatment. We work with a team of experts. Because of the multifaceted nature of autism, each has his own expert. And it is very easy for each expert to go on a silo and work on their own things. It is very important for us to have a holistic point of view and not to focus on deficiencies only, but more importantly, to find our child’s strengths, leverage on those strengths to overcome the challenges.
[00:07:53.380] – Speaker 3
And I can appreciate that for each family receiving a diagnosis your children is very unique. It can be highly emotional, overwhelming at first. It takes a lot of intentionality to process, like you said, a lifelong diagnosis. And I think there’s probably a whole bunch of mixed emotions at the very beginning. And both of you quit your jobs at the time and became, in quotes, the CEOs of your son’s development. And is that common for parents who have children with special needs? What were the catalysts for you to make that decision? Was there a perceived lack of support or resources? How did you, early on when you got the diagnosis, how did you figure out that was the path way that you needed to do and what set you off to really invest yourselves in the future development of your children?
[00:08:54.800] – Speaker 2
Well, at the time where we were faced with the diagnosis of our son, my husband and I had a hard conversation because at that time, I was the communications manager for the Canadian CEO of a telecommunications company. So it was a choice for me to help my CEO communicate or to help my son communicate. It was quite clear to me that I should invest in my son, and that’s in 2008, I left my job to help him do therapy at home and also to attend various workshops and conferences, to learn more about autism, to learn more about how to help him overcome some of the challenges that he had in front of him.
[00:09:54.640] – Speaker 3
And Poppy, for you?
[00:09:56.490] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I mentioned about the multifaceted diagnosis. For that, we need to make an impact. We need a multi-prong approach. I also mentioned about the tendency to have silos in each expertise area. That’s why it’s very important to have a broad perspective in order to continue focusing on the solution for the person as a whole, holistic point of view. I want to say that this is It’s not for everyone what Fiona and I did, because I know along the way in our journey, we’ve met some moms that simply cannot cope without their career. It’s the ability to retain self-identity in a form of respite, just to be honest. Some families do need to income to survive the pressure of the expensive therapies.
[00:10:52.480] – Speaker 3
Yeah, and multifaceted diagnosis. Like you said, we’re also multifaceted families with different needs. I can only imagine there were so many things going through your head about your own careers and your children. You have other children in the mix as well, and yet there you are wanting to help your sons as much as you can. Maybe uniquely and maybe not so uniquely, which is why I’m excited about this conversation, they both really set off on very unique paths that have defined a lot of their life. And Fiona, we’ve talked and we know each other because Ezequiel has come to Muskoka Woods and has been part of our programming, and we have watched him in his career as an athlete. Can you tell us a little bit about how did Ezequiel start competing in Special Olympics and how did he get into his sport, and maybe give us a little bit of a sense of that journey for him.
[00:11:59.660] – Speaker 2
Yes. Ezequiel has been very blessed with athletic abilities. He is an athlete in speed skating, in swimming, and in track and field. So speed skating was his first sport, and it was totally unplanned because when he was in senior kindergarten, his school had a winter elective program, and the little kids were taught to skate. At the time, Ezekiel had an occupational therapist who advised us that he needed proprioceptive input. That means he needed to ground his body in order to know where his body was. Otherwise, he would feel like he’s floating. That’s why he needs lots of jumping. He likes to touch the wall when he’s walking along the building. He loves hugs and high fives. So this proprioceptive input, I thought, was very hard to get on the ice because don’t you just float on the ice? I’m not a skater myself. So I thought, okay, maybe I’ll ask dad to bring him to the community skate sessions and give him a little bit of a taste of skating before the winter perspective begins. Seeing my husband bring him on the ice was actually surprising because he was very comfortable on the ice. Even though he fell, he would giggle and get up and continue skating and picked up the skill really fast.
[00:13:54.520] – Speaker 2
So we thought, Oh, okay, maybe he can advance in in some a sport related to ice. But hockey was too hard for him because he couldn’t comprehend the team’s strategies. And then figure skating was too hard because of the techniques involved. When we found speed skating, it was really a blessing because he just needed to go around and around repeating the same thing, which is what his autistic mind does anyway. It was amazing for him to join just a typical speed skating club. We were then encouraged to go and explore competing with other Special Olympics speed skaters. That was our first introduction into the Special Olympics.
[00:14:54.220] – Speaker 3
That’s amazing. He’s doing really well in it right now, isn’t he?
[00:14:58.500] – Speaker 2
Yes, he has He had recently been on Team Ontario, representing Ontario to compete at the Canada Winter Games organized by Special Olympics in Calgary. So he was able to travel with the team and just be independent of his parents. Because just as regular sports teams go, Special Olympics sports teams have to go together with their coaches on the airplane at the hotel. Parents were not allowed to stay in the same hotel or get on the same plane. He very much enjoyed the whole experience. But this is only because he was able to attend Muskoka woods overnight camps that led him to cultivate this level of independence. As a child growing up, he did not have the chance to go to sleepovers. Just being able to send him to an overnight camp was a big decision for us because we were worried for his safety. He couldn’t advocate for himself at the time. We just trusted that Muskoka woods would be the right place because of the solid reputation that you have and also the fact that it has the foundation support behind it to provide one-on-one support for him during the time that he was at camp.
[00:16:44.000] – Speaker 2
We’re really thankful to Muskoka Woods Foundation for that.
[00:16:47.830] – Speaker 3
Well, it’s a huge part of our heart and what we want to provide for families and specifically young kids. As you mentioned that, just not even to continue to draw on Muskoka Woods, but how important are development opportunities outside of the normal family life? And whether it’s going to summer camp or even having a job. I know Ezekiel has had a job as a merchandise at Shoppers, Drug Mart, and Poppy, your son, has now got his own successful catering business, has even written a cookbook. And how important is employment for people like your sons in their development and in inclusion, where does that fit into the journey?
[00:17:34.350] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I think employment is critical in the well-being of a special needs person. Having a job is the livelihood of a person with or without special needs. Employment is a venue for special needs person to give back to the society by creating valued roles, a role that is appreciated, rewarded. It’s a paid job, not just It’s a volunteer job. A job is also an opportunity to engage with other people. Loneliness is a concern in the community of adults with special needs. Employment also builds confidence and giving a sense of contribution and achievement, which relates to contentment in life, seeing that your life has a purpose, that you change other people’s life for the better. All of these giving a sense of living with dignity and purpose, and those who are very important.
[00:18:34.820] – Speaker 3
It’s great. And so, Poppy, maybe you can build on that, maybe a bit about your own story and your son’s journey. When did you start to realize or when did he realized that he had an interest in cooking? Did that come up early in life? Is that something that was nurtured later? When did he or when did you know he was going to become a chef and transition into actually having that as a career?
[00:19:01.610] – Speaker 1
Yes. So related to what you mentioned earlier about providing opportunities for our children to try different things in order to find where is their interest and what they’re good at. It all started with a voluntary job. My son, in his 10 years, he did various volunteer job from working in the gym to the Gap. But the one that makes a significant mark is working in a tax shop in a long-term care. He works as a shopkeeper, and he serves snacks like bagel, mini pizza, coffee to the families, visitors, staff, and to the seniors. For that job, he needs to get a food handling certificate that’s required in the industry. The tuck shop also gives him opportunity, not only customer-facing skills, but also simple cooking skills, obviously, inventory management skills, re-shelving items, also accounting skills, counting money at the end of the day, et cetera. All of those activities, he did that for four years. All of that lead to summer company program, Ontario program that nurtures young entrepreneurs. He has Waffle stand in different farmers markets. The program offered training as well, business training, like doing trade show, sales coaching, accounting, et cetera. At the end, he received a Best Entreprene Award by Ministry of Economic Development and Ministry of Research Innovation.
[00:20:41.030] – Speaker 1
After that, he decided to pursue culinary designation in George Grand Chef School. During COVID, he wanted to help family, especially the adults, that suddenly lost their programs due to the pandemic. So he started to do online classes, and that eventually led to his current business, working with charities, nonprofits, and churches, and agencies.
[00:21:06.020] – Speaker 3
Let’s take a moment to talk about Muskoka Wood CEO Leadership Program.
[00:21:13.150] – Speaker 4
This isn’t just a summer program.
[00:21:15.620] – Speaker 3
It’s a stepping stone for your future. Teenagers can earn a grade 11 high school credit or complete community service hours, all while developing leadership skills in a supportive environment. Our team of passionate staff ensures every CEO has a remarkable and educational experience. Interested in joining this July or August? Find out more at muskokawoods.com You both have taken what you’ve learned and your journeys and become resources and advocates for other families with developmental disabilities. How important is it for you to lend your expertise in an effort to help these families? Why do you do that? Why do you invest your time in helping other families on similar journeys?
[00:22:09.390] – Speaker 2
I saw this as a calling from God in my life because the year that Ezekiel was diagnosed, the United Nations designated April second as World Autism Awareness Day, and April second is my birthday. In fact, I was born in Singapore at 02: 04 hours. That, to me, is affirmation from the Lord that this is my ministry. So I have put a lot of effort into sharing my expertise gained throughout all my years of workshops, conferences, just helping other families, being in support groups. And there’s a huge sense of fulfillment because I know that whatever I have learned is not just benefiting my own son, but is also able to support other families who have similar challenges.
[00:23:27.820] – Speaker 3
And Poppy?
[00:23:28.850] – Speaker 1
Yeah, for me, I think My short answer is because receiving is in giving. Sharing my experience is therapeutic, knowing that my experience can be a blessing for others, similar to what Fiona said. Also, we receive not in kind, and not from the people we give, but from others appointed to bless us. We give to the people who have been brought to our circle by God’s grace and mercy. That is God’s economy. The word economy is I take and you give.
[00:24:03.650] – Speaker 3
It’s amazing. I think that that’s probably when you’re heads down and you’re figuring out how to navigate this reality in your own family with your own children, I think it’s pretty easy. I don’t think in a negative way to just be so consumed by working through this on your own. I think that it’s pretty admirable that both of you have seen this as an opportunity to encourage other families and invest in them and bless them. As you said, Poppy, there, it’s therapeutic yourself. And, Fiona, you mentioned that it’s part of your calling. I think that’s amazing. I think it’s something that helps families as a whole is to have other people in their tribe or other experts who aren’t just giving intellectual or other information, but have that real lived experience and have lived through all the things that worked and didn’t work and the ups and downs, the highs, the lows, and to be able to share that and to connect with other families, I think is hugely inspiring. And again, why we have you on the show today to encourage other families. So in the next part of the interview, I’d love to just maybe if you could share some things that you’ve learned and have encouraged you.
[00:25:23.750] – Speaker 3
Both of your kids have achieved incredible goals. And so what’s the secret to raising kids that have that can-do attitude that want to go out and pursue what they’re passionate about? I think oftentimes we get kids that just get stuck. And so what have you learned about parenting your boys in encouraging them to pursue this? What’s the secret to it?
[00:25:50.550] – Speaker 1
Over the years, I learned that my son is a reflection of myself. That means that when I feel great anxiety, my My son will do, too. When I reflect confidence and calmness, my son will do, too. The simple answer is, say it, mean it, do it. It is easy to say, but very hard to practice. When we do this consistently, we say it, we mean it, we do it. It gives our child confidence and feeling of security. It makes them look at the glass always half full. It only helps in our situations. It also teaches me to be a consistent parent. Then I’m more economical with my words. When the family is younger, we’d have a tendency to keep repeating the same command over and over and maybe saying it louder and louder. These things don’t really help because people in the autumn spectrum is not deaf. Sometimes the command that we are repeating to them, they don’t understand. Like, sit down versus take a seat. You know what I’m saying? Literally take a seat can mean sticking a chair out of a room.
[00:27:05.890] – Speaker 3
Right.
[00:27:07.220] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So, yeah. Say it, mean it, do it. And remember that your child is reflecting your mood, your anxiety, So try to be calm, be patient. I just want to mention that my son’s success is also due to a big part of his own effort. He’s a tremendous hard worker, and he has great discipline. In the culinary business, waking up at 3 AM is not uncommon. He has to be on his feet 12 hours a day and delivering on time and on budget. So the success A major part of the success is also because my son is doing a lot of work as well.
[00:27:51.580] – Speaker 3
Fiona, do you have anything to add on that?
[00:27:54.730] – Speaker 2
For Ezekiel to have a can-do attitude, we had taught him to have his identity in Christ. The fact that he is fully loved by the Lord and by his parents, no matter his endeavors, helps him to have a level of confidence that helps him. For example, if he knows that going into a competition, he is going to be last because everyone else is bigger, stronger, or older than him, then what he has in mind is just to do his best and try to break his own personal best time. We’ve taught him that no matter the result, whether he is dead last, he could even break his own personal best time. And he’s done that before. But even if he doesn’t get his own personal record broken, there is no pressure, there is no condemnation. He is able to try again at the next race, which might be in 10 minutes. And he knows that he does not need a trophy to win favor from the Lord or to win favor from us. We are supportive of his every effort. I think when kids have their identity tied to who they are and not tied to what they can produce, that will give them the confidence to try their best in everything.
[00:29:52.290] – Speaker 3
When you both look back, was there a decision or a choice that you made or a parenting moment that you realize had a really big impact on your kids and who they’re becoming? Again, I resist after Fiona’s answer there, like what they’ve accomplished. But as you look at their lives, was there something that was really pivotal that was maybe a difficult decision to make or a moment that really changed your own perspective or how you approach your kids? Can you think of something that you could share with us as an encouragement?
[00:30:31.520] – Speaker 1
For me, the decision is to focus 100% on my son, which is to be the CEO of my son’s development. It’s my personal choice that I made. Parenting special child has no handbook. If you think about it, building your career, you’re prepared through your education and your accumulated work experience. But every special parents’ life is a sacrificial one. They are putting their child needs over their own. It’s very hard because you suddenly have to be an expert in all the areas that are impacted. We also have to deal with a high level of uncertainties and ambiguity to deal with, as well as having to learn the minutiae of details with the analysis, the diagnosis, lab whatever that comes our way. Self-care is very important for special needs parents because often they put so much of themselves into the endeavor, and they forgot to care for self.
[00:31:51.070] – Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s good. Fiona, anything you would like to add to that?
[00:31:56.220] – Speaker 2
For Ezekiel, I think we may made a big decision when he was in kindergarten because we received a visual of what he could become. At the end of Kindergarten. Well, he was in junior kindergarten at the time, but in a mixed class with those who are senior kindergarteners. So the SK kids, they took photos in little graduation gowns, and the JK kids were able to choose an outfit to put on. So there were outfits like an astronaut, a firefighter, a police officer. But I was thinking to myself, Okay, he’s not really going to grow up to be one of those. But there was an athlete costume, and it was the 2010 Winter Olympics costume that was bought by someone from British Columbia because of the Olympic Games that year. So we thought, Okay, he could be an athlete. And so he put on that costume, took a picture of it with a fake medal, and that has been our visual of his success since then. And what we had done was to recognize recognize and accept that his academic abilities are not going to be as good as his athletic abilities. And so we directed him to sports and let him try different types of sports.
[00:33:47.710] – Speaker 2
And that is why now at 19, he is a very accomplished athlete.
[00:33:53.000] – Speaker 3
It’s amazing. And I think, again, I’ve never been in either of your positions, I would imagine when you get a diagnosis at such a young age, one of your major thoughts is what’s going to become of their lives? Who are they going to develop into and what does that look like? And it may feel initially it feels a little cloudy and unsure. And so that’s why both of your son’s stories are encouraging, not just because about what they’ve accomplished, but about how they’ve discovered who they are and their passions and both of your commitments to come alongside them to facilitate that and to be co-creators and cheerleaders and supporters in that journey and then help other families. And that’s why both of these stories are so inspiring. And I know our listeners will get the information they can about your sons and as a way to be encouraged about human potential and how young people that have special needs can continue to live incredible lives. What an encouragement that is for any family who’s going through their own challenges with their children, whatever unique challenges they are to see what potential lies ahead for their kids when they trust and believe.
[00:35:21.760] – Speaker 3
And I know in your situations, pray and continue to journey with that. And so I wonder, just as we’re finishing, if either both of you And maybe we’ll start with you, Fiona, and then we’ll go to Poppy. Do you have any advice or special thoughts with parents who might either be struggling with a new diagnosis or right in the thick of working through some of the challenges that arrive when they have kids that have special needs? Can you give us some your words of wisdom or encouragement today as we wrap up this conversation?
[00:35:55.460] – Speaker 2
I think parents are their child’s best therapists. Along the way, as Ezekiel was growing up, we saw that a lot of parents would send their children to therapy and expect results. However, in my own experience and also watching other mothers like Poppy work with their children, I found that the parents themselves are actually the best people to work with their kids, no matter the age. You are your child’s best therapist, tutor, best friend. It’s all because you know how your child thinks and behaves. We should not pass this role off to someone and get into situations where we get disappointed because outsiders have failed to deliver. I would encourage all families, even if you don’t have a child with special needs, try to take on the role of the CEO of your child’s development so that you can invest your time and see the rewards of your investments.
[00:37:22.050] – Speaker 1
For me, I have two things. So first for the parents, parenting a special child is a the road last traveled. So be the light through your surface, whatever that surface may be, with consistency, with patience, with humility, and let the life itself speak to be the witness and always by God’s grace. And for our loved ones with special needs, make a difference in this world by being who God created you to be. Be authentic, be unique, inspire and change people’s life by using God given’s talents and live a life of purpose and peace, joy, contentment will follow. Be grateful for the journey and don’t be afraid of failure and weaknesses because we minister best in the areas of our weaknesses and failures because we deliver it with convictions because we have lived it.
[00:38:25.970] – Speaker 3
Well, those are both very encouraging insights words to share with us. Thank you so much for what you shared with us, your openness to talking about your family and your own journeys. I know it’s an encouragement to me whenever I hear stories like these and your specific ones. I know it’s a huge encouragement to families and many who are in the thick of it with kids with special needs. I think an encouragement to any parent or adult who cares about kids who feels like their young person is struggling or working through difficult things. I think these stories are a huge inspiration and encouragement, and you’ve had some really practical, helpful things. Thank you for your time today. I appreciate both of you. Thank you, Fiona and Poppy, for being with us on the show today.
[00:39:13.710] – Speaker 1
Thank you.
[00:39:14.730] – Speaker 2
Thank you for having us.
