[00:00:12.320] – Speaker 1
Well, hey, everyone. I’m Chris Tompkins, and this is the Shaping Our World podcast. My goal is to invite you into a conversation that will leave you more confident in understanding and inspiring the young people in your life. Each episode, we talk with leading experts and offer relevant resources to dive deeper into the world of our youth today. Today, I’m joined by Hillary Spiritos, founder of Bat Outta Hell, and a certified pathfinding coach dedicated to helping young adults chart their own unique path. Drawing from her years as an academic advisor at NYU and Northeastern, Hillary guides her clients to build self-trust, overcome fear and imposter syndrome, and create a life that’s aligned with their values. In our conversation, we talk about what it means to redefine success beyond societal expectations, why your 20s and 30s are a time to embrace uncertainty and adventure, and how to find clarity in a distracted, social media-saturated world. Hillary’s perspective will leave you feeling inspired and optimistic about the next generation’s potential. Let’s dive into the conversation with Hillary. I work at Muskoka Woods as a CEO, but my journey began in 1996 as a member of summer staff, and it was life-changing.
[00:01:33.400] – Speaker 1
Working at Muskoka Woods is not just about the job. You get housing, meals, and the chance to live in one of the most beautiful places in Ontario, Lake Rosseau. More than that, you’ll be part of a community that values your development and well-being with access to our facilities and special staff events. Ready for a career that offers so much more? Visit jobs.muskokawoods.com to learn more. Now, let’s delve into today’s conversation. Hillary, it’s great to have you on the show. Thanks for being with us.
[00:02:04.920] – Speaker 2
Hi. So great to be here. Thank you for having me. Really excited to talk to you.
[00:02:09.220] – Speaker 1
Yeah, and looking forward to this conversation. Before we dive into all the technical stuff and what we’re really interested in, we want to get to know you a little bit more. We are very interested in who you are. Tell us, what shaped your world when you were growing up? When you were a kid, teenager, what were the big influences in your life?
[00:02:27.060] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I think some of the big influences I’ve always been really into music and art and culture and comedy and theater and live performance. And so I tried to consume as much of that as possible and partake as much as possible and engage in that space as much as I can or could. I also really, in a niche way, perhaps, really love inspirational sports movies. And so I probably have seen I would never say all of them, but I’m in a large chunk. And I do think that played a role in shaping what I do today. I also grew up in the era of boy bands and girl bands, and so loved that, as well as I’m an old soul, so a lot of the music and TV and all of that stuff that I listen to and watch does come from the ’70s and ’80s, most likely. I’m a little bit of an old soul, but I’m definitely in the current era as well.
[00:03:32.460] – Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, we’re just meeting actually for the first time in this interview, but it sounds like we could have and probably should be really good friends because all those things are important influences. Whenever someone asks me about top 10 movies. Rudy is my number one favourite movie, and sports movies are great. And just for interest’s sake, we are going to see a Hans Zimmer World experience or whatever this coming weekend as we’re recording, which is all the movie soundtrack stuff that Hans Zimmer does with a live orchestra and a big venue in Toronto. So I’m looking forward to that. Oh, amazing.
[00:04:09.240] – Speaker 2
You got to tell me how that is.
[00:04:10.540] – Speaker 1
I can already bet it’s going to be fantastic and go into another concert this weekend. You hit me at the right time where music and art and all that stuff shaping my day today. So how does that shape your world today? Are you still interested in all these things? Tell us a little bit about you.
[00:04:25.580] – Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. So definitely fully present in my life today. I mean, I grew up in New York City, which I think is part of that. And then now I live in London, which again is a huge cultural city. So I do try to see concerts, theater, dance, anything like that, comedy shows as much as I can. I also, being over in Europe, I mean, I’ve always done this in my life, but being over in Europe has given me the opportunity to just travel more frequently and easier than I’ve ever done before. And I’ve always been a huge traveler, and I have clients all over the world, so I’m just bopping all over the world, and that’s really exciting. And I’m actually… I do a lot of heady stuff. I’m a lot in my head and in my emotions when I do my work with young people. I’m really trying to participate in more… Like get out of my head and into my hands. Right now, I’m trying to take as many art classes as I possibly can. Currently in a ceramics course.
[00:05:28.080] – Speaker 1
Oh, wow. That’s great. Yeah. You’re doing that to escape from the heady work. A lot of the work you do is pretty significant for the people that you work with and coach and young people and young adults. Can you just tell us a little bit about your work and what you do to shape the world of young people?
[00:05:48.120] – Speaker 2
Absolutely. I have a business called Bat Outta Hell. My business is a personal development coaching business or what I call pathfinding business. My mission is to help young adults find and overcome their blocks, figure out what they’re passionate about and interested in, and help them build the skills and tools that they need to move forward and execute the next steps in their life. Then we also want to figure out what’s next by looking inward rather than outward for the answers and figure out your blocks and what’s blocking you from creating and living the life you want to live. Then we create an actionable strategic plan so that you can bring your fullest, fiercest, most authentic self to your life moving forward.
[00:06:35.080] – Speaker 1
That’s awesome. We’re going to get right into it because the name Bat Outta Hell, I think people in my genre might think meatloaf. But can you tell us a little bit about why you chose that name for your coaching business? What’s that all about? It’s so intriguing.
[00:06:54.300] – Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah, thank you. I thought long and hard about my company and what I wanted it to be called. I’ve always felt a real relationship and kinship with Bats. I think Bats are really highly perceptive, social, empathetic creatures, and they spend a lot of their time upside down, so they’re constantly seeing the world from a different perspective. They also symbolize transformation and rebirth and coming out of the old and into the new and out of the and into the light. I think that all of that stuff I really resonate with and wanted to evoke in my company name. I also wanted a name that’s a little edgy, a little left of center. I’m not a cookie cutter, one-size-fits-all person or coach, and I wanted a name that reflected that. But yeah, there’s also definite nods to Meat Loaf and Batman. I’ve had conversations about that, which I totally respect. I He faced his fears and demons and took it on and created his persona, and that’s pretty rad in living his fiercest truth as well.
[00:08:11.620] – Speaker 1
It’s funny. When you started talking about bats, Obviously, I referenced the music with Meat Loathe and album. But as soon as you said that, I envisioned the Batman movie and one of them where they’re going back when he falls down the well and all these bats. I was just like, and they’re all flying out. It’s a powerful idea. I love everything you said about that. I also love that you gear your work towards young adults. On our show, we talk a lot about young people, children, but many of our listeners, our parents, are of older teens who are entering into their 20s, the season of life that can be uncertain and overwhelming. We’ve had shows where we’ve talked about how adolescence is extending into that period of time and what does mean to launch and step into adulthood. You describe your coaching as offering a unique in between space for young adults. Can you explain what that means, why that space is so important during the transitions of early adulthood?
[00:09:16.860] – Speaker 2
Absolutely. I really appreciate that question. I think that’s a really great nuanced question. I call what I do in the space that I occupy an in between space, a unique in between space, because I not parents, friends, or a therapist. Parents, as well meaning as they hopefully are, probably can’t relate to the world of today and might not be the people that your child wants to listen to right now. Then friends are hopefully well meaning, but they’re not objective, and they’re also not you, and they’re going through this the same as you are, so can’t necessarily offer the same guidance and support. Though you must, it’s very important to lean on your friends as possible. Therapists, you might not have a mental health condition that needs to be diagnosed. You might not need to be pathologized. You might need to be listened to. I think it’s really important to recognize that I, as a near peer who has gone through what you’re going through, can help guide you through this pretty challenging but also really exciting and interesting and opportunity-filled time in your life. That’s what I mean by that in space.
[00:10:31.180] – Speaker 1
When we think about that space, I think it’s easy to come up with a lot of ideas of what life after graduation is like. Even today, and if you pay attention to news and other things, you may have certain perceptions about this generation as they navigate moving into adulthood. From your observations, the work you’ve done, what are some of the biggest myths that young adults, or we all believe about life after graduation? What are we missing that maybe we just think is obvious, but maybe isn’t?
[00:11:05.660] – Speaker 2
It’s interesting because I think that so much of our society right now is gearing towards this idea that these myths are myths and they’re not actually accurate, but because they’re so deeply held in our cultural psyche, our parents, our history, it’s in our bodies that even though we might see evidence that these are not true and they are myths, that they still have such a really big grip on us. I mean, some of these myths are like, I’ll have it all figured out by a certain time. If I get a degree in this, I’ll get my dream job. Once I have my dream job, I’ll be all set. Once I find a partner, I’ll be all set. Everyone else has it all figured out and knows what they’re doing, but I do. Anything that’s related to age, so by now I should be blank, in a serious relationship, have more money, have more whatever, this same idea that I’m behind. This idea that I have to stick with anything that I’ve done previously, like stick with a career I chose, stick with the degree I’ve gotten, stick with a major, stick with the partner, all these things that you have this idea of that you need to pick something and you’re locked in and you can’t pivot.
[00:12:20.940] – Speaker 2
Anything that has to do with someone else’s understanding of success. This idea that if you mess something up, you’ll be screwed forever and you You’ll ruin your future. There are tons of myths that people have in your head. This idea that adulthood means that you know what you’re doing. We want to try to not reinforce these, and we want to actually understand that these are myths, but they’re so deeply held that sometimes it’s hard to let go of them.
[00:12:49.580] – Speaker 1
Yeah, that’s really good. I remember when I was graduating years ago, meeting with someone about a potential job after, and they wanted a three-year commitment. I remember being like, I can’t do that. I’m not as sure if I want to do this, and that’s going to take three years of my life. They said to me this phrase, Well, you can do anything for a year. I just remember thinking, That’s crazy. I remember going like, so much of our school thing is like, grade nine builds to grade 10 and 10 to 11. Everything’s building. You take this next course and next course to get into this program, and then you You get your degree. Every year counts to something else that it just seems like when you’re young, it’s so significant. I think his point at the time was like, What’s wrong with a year or two doing something? It’s not your forever. I just remember that pressure of feeling, as soon as I’m done, I’ve got to figure out what it is, get a job, and get going in that. That has stuck with me, and I give it back to people all the time when they’re feeling that weight of pressure.
[00:14:00.320] – Speaker 1
Now, that’s me a long time ago. I’m a Gen Xer. I just wonder, what’s changed for young adults now that maybe was different for me or other people, my age, parents that are listening, older teachers or whatever?
[00:14:15.040] – Speaker 2
Great question. So, yes, there are a lot of similarities. And this idea of trying to figure out who you are and what you want and what you’re capable of and what your place in the world is and what impact you want to have on the world, those are human questions. And so All generations, and everybody deals with that in some form of another or another. I would say that I do believe that there are very significant things that make growing up and being a young adult currently very difficult and perhaps more challenging than it has ever been. And some of those are the impact of the COVID pandemic, the rise in helicopter or lawnmower parenting, the rise and ubiquity of social media. Just the increase of financial, global, societal instability and unrest makes it a very challenging world for young adults to find their feet in a world that’s constantly shifting under their feet in which they’re trying to get an understanding of who they are, but while they feel like they can’t even move forward, really, or feel steady. I think it is a very different world. It can be hard for parents parents, specifically, to recognize that and really understand the impact of what existing in the world means today, what dating looks like today, what finding a job looks like today, what having friends looks like today, what a relationship is today, what is communication today.
[00:15:48.640] – Speaker 2
All of that is just very different in a world that is just… It’s a challenging world. But however, that doesn’t mean that it’s impossible. That doesn’t mean that it’s to be treated as totally scary and you should be apathetic and decide not to opt in. But it’s definitely a different… If it’s a different world.
[00:16:09.480] – Speaker 1
Well, and I think I’m asking that because the objective or the outcome for any adult transitioning into adulthood is the same no matter what generation it is. You’re figuring out what does it mean to become all that I’ve created to be and find meaning and purpose and fulfillment in life. But the conditions in you do that are often different. There’s cultural differences, there’s generational differences, time-bound ones. I think you’re right. A lot of those things you said definitely play a role. We’re going to get into a few of them. But before we dive into some of those things that you were just even talking about, like social media. I wanted to dive into a phrase, a topic that you talk about, which is redefining success. We talked about these myths and ideas helping young people grow into their potential find these things as they’re adjusting into their new world. What does redefining success mean to you? How do you help young adults step away from societal parent expectations to define success for themselves Because I think that, and correct me if I’m wrong, one of the pressures I felt is, what do I want from myself and how do I detangle what everyone else is telling me I should be at the end of the day?
[00:17:26.360] – Speaker 1
How do you help young adults do that?
[00:17:28.600] – Speaker 2
I think it’s a It’s a really interesting question. And the first thing that I would say is that every person is different. And so the answer to that question and what resonates for each person is going to be unique and different. So this is not a one size fits all answer. And it’s not really an answer as much as it’s a conversation and a practice. But what we want to do is untether ourselves from the stories that we have learned as children, because so much of who we are and the way we behave and our personalities and all of this is shaped by our childhood. So we want to talk about and uncover what those definitions and lessons are around success or failure or courage or anything like that. We want to understand what our instinct is, what our base understanding is, because until you become aware of that, you’re at the mercy of it, and you won’t be able to be conscious of it and decide to take a different road. And then you ask questions of, Do I agree with that? Is that what I value? Is that even true what I think my parents feel success is and what I should do?
[00:18:40.660] – Speaker 2
What are my personal metrics for success? What makes me feel good? What makes me feel alive? Then we want to start to break the myth that we talked about earlier of this one path that you have to do things in a certain order and have this linear life. Maybe that’s not something that aligns with you. I think that I I talk to a lot of clients and young people that have this idea that there’s this one path and that if they choose something different, they’re deviating from that path. But really, it’s just that there are just different paths and we’re all on our own road. Then We want to learn how to talk to our parents without shame or embarrassment as an adult. What that means is having conversations with parents or other people in our life that may ask us about what we’re doing or view our success in a certain way. We want to have an adult conversation, meaning we’re not looking for their approval. If you’re looking for a job and you feel like your parents are on you about how that’s not acceptable, we want to have a conversation learn how to have a conversation with your parents and say, I don’t have a job now, but this is the steps that I’m doing.
[00:19:52.060] – Speaker 2
I’ll figure it out. I don’t really know what I want to, what industry I want to be in, but this is how I’m figuring it out. You want to be in control of your life. We also want to encourage small steps until you’re ready to take big risks. We want to create this feeling of comfort in the way that you feel like you can go outside of your comfort zone. Then we want to also recognize that going outside of your comfort zone and trying something new is an opportunity for growth and not necessarily an opportunity for failure. But then you have to talk about what redefining failure is. I mean, there are a lot of things. We want to celebrate courage and not just outcomes. We have to redefine what courage means to you. I think a lot of people have an interesting definition of courage that might not be the fullest definition of courage, but that’s an interesting conversation to be had as well.
[00:20:43.080] – Speaker 1
You just unpacked a lot of the way that you approach these conversations and the help that you provide young people. I know you have a three-step method, and maybe it was covered a little bit in there, for helping young adults overcome fear, build resilience, counter-imposter syndrome. How do you take people, young people, through it? As a coach, I know you have a specific approach, but I’m also thinking, as parents are listening or teachers or people that care about kids, they’re like, Oh, yeah. Well, how can I help young people go through that journey as well? Obviously, they may need you to coach them. How do you take them through that? But what are some things that the regular person like me can do to help unpack these things for people?
[00:21:31.000] – Speaker 2
Sure. To answer the first part of that question, I have a three-month program called Aligned and Alive, in which the first month we talk about, and we have worksheets, and we have conversations, and about who you are really, honestly, deeply, what you value and what you want your life to look like. And in the second month, we talk about your blocks and what’s stopping you from getting the life in going after the life if you want. And then in the third month, and that’s a big, real chunk of the work. And then in the third month, we redefine and re-answer the questions that we answered in the first month because that might have shifted. It probably has. As well as create an actionable strategic plan so you feel comfortable and confident moving forward and have developed the skills and tools needed to move forward, such as resilience and self-reliance and self-trust and the ability to stand alone and have and be uncomfortable and cultivate your own voice, all of that. And then we have follow-up conversations. And I also have clients who don’t necessarily go through that three-month plan, but meet with me regularly as well.
[00:22:42.460] – Speaker 2
But what I would say to, for example, parents, I think it’s really important to really listen and really give your child the space to work things out themselves. I know it can be really challenging to let someone struggle and work something out, but giving them the answer, that’s not helpful. What’s helpful is to allow them to sit in it and think about it and work through it themselves, even if it’s uncomfortable. I also think this is a little bit perhaps heady work, but I think it’s important for parents to recognize what their deeply held beliefs are about success, about failure, what pressures they might be unconsciously or consciously putting on their child about what they think their life should look like. I also think it’s important to recognize that your child is an adult, and so their choices are not a reflection on yours. They need to create whatever path they’re on. And if they stumble, that’s okay. That’s an opportunity for growth. But also be very supportive and loving.
[00:23:58.220] – Speaker 1
Well, yeah. I just think that’s so insightful because I think, like you were saying, even letting kids sit in it for a bit, too, the tension there. I think you referred to earlier about helicopters, we would say snowplow, lawnmower, whichever We’re Canadians. We have a lot of snow. Whatever metaphor you’re using, I think that’s what happens as a result of not letting kids sit in some of these tensions and work through them. I do know because I have an adult child now, she’s 19, and that’s been the hardest tension is when you’re a kid, when they’re little, you’re like, Well, no, I can get in and help and influence, and I’m going to do it in a relationship-building way and ask good questions. Now she’s an adult and you’re like, Well, I don’t have the same influence as I used to, and then I have to trust that she can make those decisions. But it is a transition. Parenting an adult child is much different than parenting kids. There’s a unique thing to go with that, right?
[00:24:59.060] – Speaker 2
Totally. I I think the other thing I think I come across a lot, actually, with young people is this idea, something that I think is huge is the idea of precedence. What are the times in your life that you have gone outside of your comfort zone or that you have tried something new and survived or thrived or learned that you could do it, that you can rely on yourself, that you can pick yourself back up, that you can find your way in a new direction, that you could book a new flight if you’ve missed it, whatever these things are. Are. If you don’t have any instances of that, and they don’t even have to be big instances, but most people have even something. But I do come across a lot of people who feel like all of these obstacles have been cleared for them, and they just don’t know their own strengths. Then you start from there, and that’s part of the work. But I do think that allowing your children to find what their risk assessment level is and what their abilities are, and how far they’re comfortable going, and that they know they can trust themselves that if they need to, they can figure it out, and they can handle it, and they can ask for support.
[00:26:15.840] – Speaker 2
I think that’s very important. Also in the world of today, in which there are so many distractions and there are so many ways to… You could technically ask ChatGPT for the answer, but you’re not developing developing the ability to problem-solve, to figure out what’s right for you, to figure out when the next thing happens, are you going to continually look outward for the answer? What if it’s not what you actually want? Do you even know what you actually want? Have you sat with it and tried to figure that out? So these are really important questions because the longer you leave it, you always have the opportunity to learn these skills, but the longer you leave it, it gets harder. But also We want to live the majority of our life as our fullest, most authentic selves, doing what we want to be doing, at least at the time. So why not get started now?
[00:27:14.840] – Speaker 1
I know from listening to what you’ve been saying, that to do that, there’s the emphasis around risk-taking adventure as ways to deepen self-discovery, finding out who I am, what I love doing, what What helps me thrive, where am I at, and risk-taking an adventure. And you’ve used the word courage or a big part of that. I think it’s interesting, too, because I think oftentimes when you look at this age demographic, and for some, and coming out of the pandemic, That can be really hard to embrace because there is a lot of uncertainty in their world. Can you talk a little bit about that? How do we encourage young people to go on those adventures and take risks and explore who they are and create space for that and come alongside and encourage that?
[00:28:04.180] – Speaker 2
There are a couple of things going on in my head at the moment. I think when we talk about risks and adventures, I think I want to be clear that I’m including the whole spectrum of that. People have different understandings and different tolerances of risk. So whether that means going to see a movie by yourself, whether that means solo traveling, whether that means jumping out of an airplane, whether it means moving to a different country, whether that means It’s like going to a party by yourself, whatever it is, or getting married or whatever it might be, that’s first thing. There’s no judgment around that, and it is totally up for you to figure out and decide. This is not everyone needs to go crazy and take the biggest risks possible. But I think what’s important to recognize is there… First, I want to talk a little bit about courage. We often think of courage as these big acts of running into a burning building or moving to a different country or whatever, these big things that people do in movies. I don’t think people necessarily take the time to recognize that they engage in acts of courage constantly and in their everyday lives.
[00:29:15.280] – Speaker 2
I think it’s really important to stop and take stock of that and recognize that the moments in your life that you are engaging in a courageous act and recognize what you’re capable of and how far you’ve come and what you’ve learned and how you’ve grown. So So really taking ownership of that. And then also recognizing that courage is not the absence of fear, but it’s feeling the fear and doing it anyway, which I think lowers the bar of entry a little bit. So you don’t have to be completely without fear to do something. You can still be anxious, excited. But if you’re even a little bit excited, we want to do the thing. And I also think it’s just important to recognize that it’s courageous to feel deeply and live your life as an emotionally conscious and connected individual. We don’t want to live our lives in a numb space. But I think it’s important to also recognize that it’s just about seeing obstacles as an opportunity for growth rather than the option of… We have this idea in our head that if we try something new or try something that we think is scary, that will be ridiculed and trolled and made fun of.
[00:30:30.860] – Speaker 2
I think that while that may be true in some instances, trolls exist, and I think that we want to learn to recognize that that’s a projection from them and that they really have no impact on our lives and what we’re doing. But also, most of the time what happens is you’re met with people saying that that’s really cool what you’re doing, and that’s so proud, like they’re so proud of you, or that, Oh, my God, I’d never have the courage to do that. You’re actually often met with people thinking it’s pretty amazing. I think we don’t necessarily remember that. We’re so scared of the backlash, but it’s a lot of the time it’s very positive.
[00:31:15.220] – Speaker 1
As you’re talking, I’m just thinking through the role failure plays in some of this, too. I think so many people are so concerned about failure and what that looks like, that that can get in the way of some of the things that you’re We’re going to transition into social media in a minute. But oftentimes, the social media world can accentuate failure or make us feel that others are being more successful than we are, or look whatever the thing is at the end of the day. As you’re saying, I’m like, Yeah, I think the fear to fail is something that may even hold people back in some of the stuff that you just eloquently unpacked for us there.
[00:31:59.680] – Speaker 2
Sure. I Sure. And then definitely, you’re also… Then you want to engage in the conversation of what is failure to you? So often we have, growing up, this idea of actual grades, like you get an F. And that’s not how life works. And so what is failure to you? Is failure not trying? Is failure living someone else’s life? I mean, those are what I would consider failure, but obviously to each their own. But we want to recognize, oh, wait, that’s not actually… Failure is such an interesting concept because it’s just more information, right? What does it actually mean? Sometimes you’re like, there’s no there, there. It just means that I didn’t get that job. Then I apply for another job. Then I go… You know what I mean? It’s just this unpacking of what and then what, and then what. Follow the domino rally. What actually happens?
[00:32:54.120] – Speaker 1
Totally. Like you’ve said, sometimes if that holds us back, we might failing in other areas because we’re not trying, or like you said, we’re living somebody else’s life because we’re afraid to go after something that maybe we want but aren’t sure how it’s going to go or whatever that looks like. I think that, yeah, you’re right. I think defining that’s really interesting. I just know sometimes that comes up. It’s like, well, why would I even try with that? I’m not good at it or it’s not going to go the way I hope. But understanding and unpacking where those definitions come from, what informs them.
[00:33:30.000] – Speaker 2
Also, I’m unpacking and asking yourself the questions about these stories that you’re telling yourself, I’m not capable. Where does that come from? That probably comes from something in your childhood that happened. You’ve unpacking these childhood wounds that you then have to untangle and come to terms with, and then you can consciously decide to not engage with them. But until you consciously get in touch with them, they’re going to be a big drive in your life.
[00:33:56.220] – Speaker 1
Yeah, that’s really good. We touched on social media, and That’s something that comes up a lot, I think, mostly because it is one of the biggest differences. When we talk about this generation, one of the things that defines them more, Gen Zs, more than anything else is being digital natives. They’ve grown up with technology, digital technology. Social media is a big part of that. We know that so much of the world young adults and young people live in is filtered through social media. What are some practical tools you use or teach young people to help cut through some of the online noise and the constant comparison and the other things that… You don’t know this, but on our show, we talk a lot about all the virtue of social media and the internet. There’s a lot of great things, but there are some things that we want to discern the vulnerabilities of that. How do you help them cut through all the stuff that how social media might be impacting the stuff that you’re working with them on?
[00:35:00.000] – Speaker 2
Absolutely. And I think it’s true. Social media is huge. It’s a huge part of young people’s lives. I think that there are some great things about social media. Interestingly, I think that there’s a trend happening where people are in many areas leaning towards authenticity and valuing authenticity. So I think that that’s really exciting. I think that there are people who are showing this is an unfotoshoped image of me, or this is I’m working to get a job, or this is how I’m forming community. I think that those are really important, positive ways to use social media. But I think it’s very important to be conscious when you’re using it. So have an awareness of it. And I think that so many young adults, I feel, are doing it because either they’re bored, their first instinct is to just put up, hold their phone and look through it. Their first thing they do in the morning, that’s how they find connection, or they I don’t want to be out of the loop necessarily. But I think it’s important to recognize that social media feeds are not neutral and they’re optimized for engagement. Also that it’s someone’s projected reality.
[00:36:14.680] – Speaker 2
It’s very difficult when you’re constantly scrolling through social media and you’re seeing all these 20-year-olds who are billionaires and living their perfect life. You actually need to be conscious of the idea that that’s probably not true. There’s something else going behind the scenes. Actually, the best thing to recognize is that someone else’s life really has nothing to do with your life. But you want to ask yourself, why are are using it, right? So are you looking for a connection? Are you looking for creative inspiration? Are you bored? Are you stressed? Can you put it down for a bit? Can you create blocks of time? Can you take breaks? I think taking breaks from social media is vital. We want to avoid passive consumption as much as possible. I think it’s also recognizing that your worth is not measured by the number of likes you get, and that it’s not a replacement for in-person connection and community, and real-world connection, and talking to another human being, and engaging with other people. I think it’s important to recognize that because I think that so many young people are really There’s a loneliness epidemic happening because there’s just not any connection.
[00:37:35.180] – Speaker 2
People feel like their likes are friends, and that’s not an adequate community.
[00:37:44.000] – Speaker 1
You’re highlighting a lot of where discernment and reflection helps us navigate it adequately in our lives. I love it, not just passive use. I think intentionality is really Discerning on the messages, I have a couple of friends that are quite successful travel influencers. I remember just catching myself going, It must be nice to do that. Then I’m like, Do you know how many hours that flight was and how long they sat in layovers and airports? You see the highlights, and it is, it’s great. It would be great to do. But what you don’t see is all the other stuff that goes in behind it that’s less glamorous. Sure. Someone like me might be like, No, thanks. I wouldn’t be interested in that.
[00:38:37.240] – Speaker 2
Absolutely.
[00:38:38.740] – Speaker 1
You specialize in work with this generation, Gen Zs, which for those listening are 13 to 28-year-old. That’s what the Gen Z demographic would look like. If you go into your web browser and type in Gen Z and who they are, you’re going to get a myriad of things and some really good stuff, but often some stuff that paints the generation a certain way, whether it’s entitled or lazy or whatever it looks like. You spend a lot of time with this generation. What do you see in them that gives you a lot of hope for them figuring out this for themselves, but also just for the world around us?
[00:39:21.280] – Speaker 2
I think that, and this is part of the reason that I really love working with this generation, and I also do a lot of work with millennials as well, And I think what really gives me hope and energizes me is this idea that this is not a generation. And millennials, to an extent as well, are not comfortable or accepting of this is how it’s always been done mentality. And so I just think there are so many systems in the world that are broken and not serving the people that they’re supposed to serve or serving them adequately. And I do think that young people today are are going to be a force for change because they’re not going to accept that this is just how it’s done and this is how we’re going to allow it to keep going. I think it’s also really important to recognize that young adults are very highly emotionally and emotionally intelligent, and they’re very highly understanding of mental health issues, and they’re very open to being vulnerable and authentic. And I think that is incredibly powerful. I also think in a lot of ways, young people are open to difference, though we are seeing that that might be a mixed bag a bit.
[00:40:41.100] – Speaker 2
I also think that the more we can allow young adults to lead their truest, most fulfilling, authentic lives and find what they’re passionate about and what they value in the world and how they want to impact the world. I mean, these are stewards of our planet and who it’s going to take care of and create the world. So the more that they figure out who they want to be, then the more they can use that energy and use that knowledge to shape the world in the best possible way.
[00:41:20.180] – Speaker 1
That’s great. That’s really encouraging. I’m wondering if we can start to wrap up our conversation with just giving some advice that you might have So I want to start with a young person, or maybe if they’re not listening, if they’re young people, like in my life, that maybe feels like they’re falling behind, that they just haven’t figured it out yet, and just feel stuck and down. What’s a piece of advice that you’d give them to encourage them or an adult who has them in their life? What would we say to them?
[00:41:54.260] – Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that’s a really interesting question because the examples that you gave, it’s like We want to unpack these just mantras or statements that we say that we consider are just truth. So someone who’s afraid that they’re behind, the question is, what is behind? What does that mean? Behind in what? Are you feeling like you don’t have enough of something? Are you just comparing yourself? What are you trying to get to? If you have a goal, the question is, are you working towards that goal? And the same thing works the same with, I haven’t figured it out yet. What is it? What are you trying to figure out? Nobody has it all figured out. Anyone who says they do, it’s lying. Because the thing is, once you’ve figured something out, then you have different aspects of your life, and then you have different periods of your life in which something’s going to shift, and you’re going to have to figure it all out again. And so what we want to do, and what I work with my clients to do, is create the skills and tools so that you can it out so that you can trust yourself to manage this.
[00:43:04.180] – Speaker 2
But I would just say, we want to learn to look inward for the answers and recognize that you are the only one who has to answer for the choices that you make in your life. It’s important to recognize, am I doing what I want to be doing at this moment? What is it that I want to be doing? That’s not what my mom wants me to be doing. That’s not what my coach thinks that I should be doing. I would never I would never tell anybody what they should be doing because I would have no idea. I’m not an expert in you. You’re an expert in you. I’m just an expert in helping you find that. You set the rules. The rules don’t exist outside of you. This is your life. In that way, there’s no wrong answer. There’s just the choices you’ve made. I think hopefully that gives some solace to people to feel like, It’s not like I have to make this choice, and it’s going to… What if I make the wrong There’s no such thing. But the question is, am I doing what I want to be doing right now?
[00:44:06.700] – Speaker 1
What about a parent who’s listening to this and they’re like, Okay, but I feel like they’re going down the wrong path or they’re making the wrong choice? Or they’re going to… And they’re just in a little turmoil about that. What advice would you give to a parent who’s watching their adult child or someone who cares about a young person who’s just like, I feel like where they’re headed is not what I would want for them?
[00:44:30.000] – Speaker 2
That’s a really interesting question. I would ask the same… It’s in the same vein of, what do you think is not good? Why do you think you know what’s right for them or what’s wrong for them? What does right and wrong mean? Unless someone is going down a road that is going to harm them or others. Because in that case, that’s a different conversation. But I think in other ways, are we talking about you think someone should be a doctor or go into finance and they want to be a drummer in a band? Is that what we’re talking about? And in that case, I mean, okay, well, let them try it out. Let them figure it out. And then if you’re like, Oh, but you can’t be successful doing that? Well, there are two answers to that. One, they could become really successful at that, or they could realize, Oh, this isn’t the life that I want to lead. I’m not that passionate about this. I would rather have a more stable job. And then they go find that more stable job, whatever that means. I have a friend who… I was actually just talking to him the other day.
[00:45:38.680] – Speaker 2
He wanted to be an actor and then realized that he really didn’t have the passion to live that lifestyle and have that rejection and all that stuff. So he decided to do something different. That’s fine. That’s more than fine. Life is all about pivots and figuring out who you are. Actually, the more things that you try, the the more you will learn more about yourself, you will learn more about what you’re capable of. You will have just more life experience. You will meet all types of interesting people. I mean, the more you figure out what you don’t want, the closer you are to figuring out what you do want. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Also, there’s nothing wrong with a little bit of struggle. A lot of my clients are concerned about financial security, and I think that’s very real, and I don’t want to downplay that, but I think it’s to recognize you can make it work. You can live with roommates. You can work two jobs. Unfortunately, that is the way the world works right now. You can find ways to live the life that you want to live. Or if you find that money is really important to you, you can work the job that you think will make you money and then do what you want to do on the side.
[00:46:51.420] – Speaker 2
You need to make these choices, figure out what your priorities are. But there’s nothing wrong with any of those.
[00:46:57.900] – Speaker 1
As you were talking, I was just thinking, too, sometimes these careers that we think are less traditional than maybe others would be, especially, like you said, about earning potential and affording life. Sometimes they turn into other things, too. I know Muskoka Woods alumni became an actor and did well, but then took that skill into going into corporate and government world to role play scenarios and do training and development, essentially, as an actor. That’s turned into a really successful career. That person’s potentially going on to become a diplomat with the government because all of those things just on the surface, it’d be like, Well, you’re out. The struggling actor motif, but it’s shaped into something totally different that I’m not sure he saw or anyone else might have seen from the very beginning. To your point, you can head down a path and it could turn into something else, right?
[00:48:01.860] – Speaker 2
Yeah. It’s also, to that note, just a side note, I think it’s really important to recognize that no one can predict the future. Even if the job that you think you want or your dream job or the job that you think is going to make you the most money or the job that you think is going to have the most security. I have a client who’s parents, and by an extension, them a bit feel like being a doctor is just a secure profession. There’s really, honestly, no such thing as security. I think that I don’t mean that to be scary. I mean that there’s no sure thing. I think it’s important to recognize that you can fail at something that you don’t like just as much as you can fail at something you do like. I think it’s important to try to be successful at that thing that you want to do. What I want to be clear about is I want to help young adults live the life that they want in a very That is sustainable for them. I’m not disregarding the money part, but I think it’s important to figure out what you want to be doing for sure.
[00:49:10.400] – Speaker 1
I’ve been so encouraged at this conversation at Muskoka Woods. We work with so many young people in this generation and in this age group. You work through all these things. There’s so much hope, and I love your approach and how you handle these conversations and how you’re helping young adults really find who they are and who they’re called to be and what fulfillment looks like in life. I love that. We can encourage people to go to your website to get more about what you do, batouttahell.net. Is that right?
[00:49:42.080] – Speaker 2
Yes, absolutely. It’s O-U-T-T-A. But yeah, it’ll be in the show notes.
[00:49:47.240] – Speaker 1
Really encouraged by our conversation today, Hillary, and really appreciate all you’re doing for young people. And thanks for all the time you’ve had with us.
[00:49:56.140] – Speaker 2
Oh, thank you for having me. I really loved our conversation.
[00:50:00.460] – Speaker 1
Well, that’s a wrap for today’s episode. If hearing from Hillary Spiritos inspired you to think differently about how to help young adults navigate their lives, build resilience, and embrace their own authentic path, head over to muskokawoods.com. There you’ll find a blog post with key takeaways from this conversation and a link to listen again. You can also explore more about Hillary’s work at Bad Outta Hell, including her coaching programs, workshops, and resources designed to help young adults cut through the noise and step boldly into their future. Don’t forget to subscribe to Shaping Our World and share this episode with a parent, educator, or young adult who’s passionate about creating a purposeful, fulfilling life. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you next time.
