[00:00:12.040] – Speaker 2
Well, hey, everyone. I’m Chris Tompkins. Welcome to the Shaping Our World podcast. My goal is to invite you into a conversation that will leave you more confident in understanding and inspiring the young people in your life. Each episode, we talk with leading experts and offer relevant resources to dive deeper into the world of our youth today. Today, I’m joined by a special guest named Curtis Carmichael. Not only is he a longtime friend and Muskoka Woods alumnus, but he’s an author, app developer, and future-of-education strategist who’s redefining how we tell stories and teach the next generation. Curtis is the mind behind Butterflies in the Trenches, the world’s first augmented reality memoir. He’s also the founder of Shuriii. He’s a self-taught computer engineer and a Forbes 30 Under 30 honouree who has worked with institutions like Apple, Microsoft, Princeton University, and the California State Department of Education. Currently pursuing a PhD in education at Hampton University, Curtis is exploring the intersection of abolitionist AI, quantum computing, and social justice. Big ideas with real-world impact for how we think about learning and equity. In this conversation, we’ll talk about the power of storytelling, the future of education, and what parents and educators need to know about technologies that are shaping our kids’ lives today.
[00:01:40.340] – Speaker 2
Let’s dive into the conversation with Curtis. Curtis, welcome to the show. It’s great to have you.
[00:01:50.840] – Speaker 1
Great to be back, man.
[00:01:52.030] – Speaker 2
Yeah, and you and I do go a little ways back and have some connections, and admittedly, have been tracking a little bit. But as we prepare for this, man, I’m so intrigued by all that you’re up to and what you’re getting into, and can’t wait to hear all about that. But before we dive into that, help us get to know you a little bit better. What shaped your world when you were growing up? What were the big influences when you were a kid or a teenager?
[00:02:17.260] – Speaker 1
There’s a couple of things. Some context. I grew up in Toronto Community Housing, so the biggest housing project in Canada, second largest in North America. You live in a community with a whole bunch of immigrants and people from all around the world. We set our neighbourhood It was like the UN. But in that community, you learn so much about science and stem and business and everything you can think about, but from a different worldview. And when I was in my community, we didn’t notice early on that that talent was everywhere. We had this idea that we didn’t have much talent because of where we live. And then when I had that special opportunity to go to things like Muskoka Woods, I went to some university campuses. I’ve been able to go to the Brazil or the islands or anywhere around the States. And all these experiences It brought me back to my neighbourhood realizing that talent is actually universal. So as a kid, going to places like Muskoka Woods and equivalent helped me shape a bit more of my world coming back. Because I started to realize if we don’t have the opportunity, we just have to create it.
[00:03:15.060] – Speaker 1
So that was the biggest inspiration that shaped me as a teenager, and it made me motivated to do anything, regardless if I had the opportunity given to me or I had to create it from scratch.
[00:03:26.220] – Speaker 2
And we’re not going to get talking about this today, but you’re also a athlete as well. I know that was a big part of your growing up, too, was sports and athletics.
[00:03:35.670] – Speaker 1
Oh, for sure. Retired.
[00:03:37.720] – Speaker 2
So what’s shaping your world today? What are the things that maybe personally you’re interested in? What’s going on in your life outside of maybe even your professional career?
[00:03:46.400] – Speaker 1
Yeah. So what shaped me outside of work is actually community projects. I think a lot of us went on in a whole bunch of different industries, and then we all came back together. And as of late, we’ve been working on a Purchasing a building and land trusting it to keep the building in the community to battle gentrification. So a lot of the work I do, that keeps me going because building something that’s right beside our neighbourhood we grew up in has all the resources and activities and opportunities in one location. So we don’t have to commute to a million places around the city when you don’t have a car in an underserved community. So that’s the big project we’ve been working on for 10 years. So hoping to get it over the hurdle the last four months of this But that’s what’s shaping my world today is like, set a community change or doing infrastructure change, like real building projects. Wow.
[00:04:37.780] – Speaker 2
That’s amazing. I love how you talk about your personal life is almost like another full job in and of itself as you continue to shape and give back to the community around you and look to make the world a better place. Tell us a little bit more about some of the work that you’re doing, the things you do in your career and vocation, and how is that shaping the of young people today?
[00:05:01.780] – Speaker 1
When I didn’t go pro in the CFL, I got injured. I had my last concussion. So I’m like, I want to do something that’s more long term and impactful for young people. So I decided to become a teacher. And then with that experience, I ended up becoming an instructional coach, naturally. And I was able to build my own business to support schools in Canada, US, and Brazil in closing achievement gaps with a focus on data-driven instruction. So that’s my day-to-day job. And in that business, I learned a lot by working in different countries. I worked with high-priority schools, affluence schools, public-private charter schools. And with that experience, I ended up shutting down my business, even though it was successful. And I started to build an AI analytics company that can help K-12 schools and underserved communities pinpoint learning gaps and get students who are behind caught up across all grade levels. So that’s the pivot I made, but it’s an extension of all the stuff I learned. I learned that every community, regardless if you’re high income or low income, every kid has their own learning journey. And if you can’t properly pinpoint where they’re at, you can’t get them caught up or you can’t get them ahead.
[00:06:07.960] – Speaker 1
So that’s where we decided to build our own culture responsive AI model in-house. So not ChatGPT, we built our own. That’s what I do day to day.
[00:06:17.960] – Speaker 2
One of the things we talked about that you didn’t share right now, one of the things is you are an author, and your book, Butterflies in the Trenches, follows your journey from being raised in community housing to becoming a STEM and social entrepreneur. It alternates between stories of your cross Canada ride for promise, during which you raised 100 grand for underfunded after-school programs in the community where you grew up, and flashbacks to growing up amid Systemic Poverty, Gang Violence, Institutional Racism in Scarborough, Ontario, which is around Toronto. Can you tell us a little bit about the title of that book, Butterflies in the Trenches? It is a powerful metaphor. What does it mean to you when it comes to raising kids in difficult situations, this title, Butterflies in the Trenches?
[00:07:06.400] – Speaker 1
The title was something that happened by mistake, which is funny. As everyone knows, before I became an entrepreneur, I was a K-12 STEM and science teachers. So I just love biology. That was just what I did. I remember stumbling upon the reality that butterflies actually only survive and reproduce if they get minerals from the mud. So there’s something that happens, obviously a chemical reaction that happens where all the essential nutrients that they do need come from the mud. And I thought it was interesting how, if you Google it, butterflies in the mud, you’ll see millions of it all around the world. And I thought it was so interesting, the parallels between my community, this idea that we start off as a caterpillar, of course, crawling through the mud and scum of the Earth, essentially. But then you end up evolving to something so beautiful, but you return to the building blocks of where you started. So for me, I had to think of my own community, and I couldn’t call it Butterflies in the Mud. So a lot of the synonyms came from the reality of some public housing projects that face a lot of gun violence and stuff happening outside of the community, what it could feel like day to day.
[00:08:14.800] – Speaker 1
That’s when we changed mud to trenches, and Butterflies in the trenches was good at highlighting both the talent and the heaven reality of these communities, but also the trenches, which is the harsha reality of the communities that we have to live with, and how to find the middle between all those things and find the beauty and the value in every kid that lives in this neighbourhood and their families.
[00:08:38.540] – Speaker 2
I remember when you did that ride and was just so intrigued with the resilience it takes to do something of that magnitude and the drive. Can you maybe even go back and share us a few things that you learned about yourself?
[00:08:55.480] – Speaker 1
Yeah, riding across Canada was a life-changing experience. I think I didn’t I didn’t really know what I was getting myself into, to be honest. I just figured it out as I went. But my boys were in the van following me Coast to Coast while I biked. And I remember just thinking about the preparation beforehand. I must have trained 30 hours a week for an entire year before starting the ride, and I was a teacher at the time. So I’m teaching all day, and then I fit in a four-hour, five-hour ride on a bike after work. And then I still have to be a partner because my wife, who I married to now, was my girlfriend at the time. So I tried to be present in my family with my loved ones while still teaching all day and riding. So I didn’t really sleep for a year. And When I started the ride, it has reminded me of how pain is so temporary in what I was doing on the ride. But in the connection to the communities I was riding for, I was motivated to keep going because I knew the day-to-day realities in these communities, they’re going to feel it every day, year after year, and sometimes it’s generational.
[00:10:04.460] – Speaker 1
And for me, I have a temporary pain for a day, a week, maybe a year preparing for this ride. But when the ride was over, I went back to my normal life. So I think for me, the motivation to keep going, even though it was very physically challenging, harder than everything I’ve ever done, it was just a constant reminder of all the elders, the grandparents, the fathers, the mothers, the young people in the neighbourhoods, even the child and youth workers that don’t get too much credit. But all these people, day in, day out, are in realities where they can’t necessarily change everything every day. So it was just a testament to what you can do physically when you have a mission that’s bigger than yourself. And Having that mission being the community, I wouldn’t have finished the ride otherwise. Those guys are getting tired. And day to day they’ll call me and they’ll have different people talk to me, whether it’s a grandmother or grandfather or father, mother or young children in the neighbourhood. They’ll be calling me every day after the ride just to say a couple of words, which kept me going. That’s the pillar of the trip.
[00:11:09.060] – Speaker 2
I hope that even hearing just that brief description of it, listeners now are like, I got to go buy that book and hear more about that and connect your personal story from growing up and this and the message you have for young people. As they get the book, one of the things they’ll discover is that Butterflies in the Trench has also been described the world’s first augmented reality memoir because it includes an interactive mobile app which offers readers’ multisensory storytelling experience. What inspired you to blend technology with a book and a memoir? And what do you hope young people as they’re reading or journeying through that might take away from that experience?
[00:11:52.240] – Speaker 1
That also was by accident. So many things in my life I’ve done by accident. I think when I was speaking in schools across Canada or some Brazil. I was connecting with a lot of people. Parent-teacher interviews, parent events, I was meeting teachers at staff nights, and then I was talking to students. And regardless of what age group people were, everyone missed the nostalgic feel of a kindergarten or Grade 1 teacher reading you a book and bring it to life. And it didn’t have any interactive technology. And when I thought back to that experience being a teacher, there’s a unique thing that you do when you bring something to life for a young person or just an adult. So I had to look at new ways to write. So I ended up writing short stories first because I noticed attention spans were dropping. So I wrote a series of short stories. And then a lot of the feedback I got with students when I showed them the short stories were like, Man, I’d love to see some photos of your community. So I started putting photos at the end of every chapter. And then I did it iteratively with students.
[00:12:55.530] – Speaker 1
And then the next thing was like, Man, I felt your story. I read it, I see it. I felt like I was there. And I’m like, Man, I wonder if there’s another way I can make them transport to that time period. And the only way to do that was with technology, where after they read the chapter, connect with the photos, by using technology, they’re able to see a press conference about my friend who passed away, Blueboy. They get a live press conference that was the first press conference after he died when they were still looking for the person who ended up taking his life. He was in a shooting in the wrong place, wrong time. So that story So it’s not just those technology, but really what technology did, it helped transport people to a time where they never been or to a community they never been from so they can actually see themselves reflected in the story a bit more. So that’s why I did that. And then, I think, with a lot of people how they dig from the stories that, I think from having the interactive experience, they’re able to see a lot of stories throughout the book through technology.
[00:13:54.520] – Speaker 1
So the first half of the book is about me, writing across Canada, living and housing. And then the other half is about young people around the world who grew up in a whole bunch of underserved circumstances and how they created opportunities out of nothing. So I think if they can leave knowing that talent is universal and opportunity isn’t, then that’s the take action approach where you’re like, Okay, how do we level the playing field for everybody?
[00:14:18.580] – Speaker 2
Talent is universal opportunity, isn’t it? What a powerful way to synthesize everything that you’ve discovered along your journey and are hoping to share with people. What people might not know is that you built the app that powers the book, and you’re a self-taught computer engineer. You also founded Source Code Academy Canada, which prepares underestimated and under-resourced children, youth, and teachers for future workforce. Can you talk about the barriers that youth in underrepresented communities face when it comes to engaging with STEM?
[00:14:55.880] – Speaker 1
I think there’s a few things. I think the number one thing in underserved communities, which is higher than in African communities, is that 50% of kids in marginalized communities right now are academically behind in all subjects. You have a half of that population who needs to get back to grade level so they can meaningfully participate and engage with STEM. So that’s one side of it. The second side of it is, even for the other half of kids in these underserved communities that can benefit from STEM, they’re starting to realize that STEM is not connected with the future workforce. So they’re learning outdated stuff. So then there’s a balance. It’s like, Okay, then what do you do? That’s where I started to connect a lot with how what we do now is by helping teachers to figure out where the world’s going, and then in real-time, connect that back to resources and interventions that can engage young people and get them to the next level. So I think that’s a direct barrier that we’ve seen, which is why we actually pivoted from Source Code. Source Code actually incubated our company CULSHE. So we went from running a program, and then we saw so many needs that we pivoted to becoming a for-profit social enterprise.
[00:16:12.290] – Speaker 1
So everything that we do actually goes back into the community. So a lot of what we figured out is you can’t really just have STEM and kids leave the classroom and you were like, Oh, that job was 2002, it’s 2025. Even though I have STEM skills, they’re outdated, right?
[00:16:29.450] – Speaker 2
So Part of your PhD research, Curtis, involves abolitionist AI. Can you maybe first describe what that is and then talk about the impact of representation in STEM as it connects back to what we were just talking about?
[00:16:45.940] – Speaker 1
A lot of people see what I’m studying, and they have no clue what it is. To be honest, I didn’t know either. I figured out as I go. But there’s a concept in the States that started out of the… Specifically out of Black women who were activists during the civil rights period, where abolitionist teaching was, how do you re-imagine institutions and practices that are beyond systems of oppression? So the example would be, let’s re-imagine institutions and practices so they can benefit all of humanity. That’s more of an abolitionist school of thought because it’s thinking of while we’re dismantling systems that don’t exist, we’re actually at the same time reimagining what could be and what should be. I think what we’ve done so often is we stay in the dismantling structures, but presenting a solution is actually a very good next step. That was something that has been used a lot to change schools. So education reform started that, and then abolitionist AI and abolitionist teaching is actually going beyond education reform. So instead of try to fix the system that was designed to create these outcomes, we actually are reimagining new systems. So that’s where AI comes in, where you probably hear of things that we might talk about today where it’s just a general AI.
[00:18:01.460] – Speaker 1
Ai is trained on the Internet, so every isme that exists, it will just perpetuate that. And if you have responsible AI, the positive of it is it looks at ethical ways to build technology, but it’s not true really focused on dismantling systems and thinking of something new. So then I have to think beyond in my research, how do we go beyond responsible and ethical AI and build systems that actually benefit all of humanity, including the most underserved? That’s when I started to do my research on moving from responsible AI to abolitionist AI. So that’s the field of study I am. I had to put my PhD on pause because I got really busy with work. We’re working with so many different school boards now. So I will return. But for me, I think representation in STEM is a huge thing for young people and also just anyone. Because once you see someone who comes from your community or even looks like you, regardless rest of your income bracket, you start to see that it’s possible. And knowing that it’s possible is the first step. And then you get into situations where… I’m at a university in the States, Hampton University.
[00:19:12.330] – Speaker 1
It’s a historically Black college and university. And there’s a hundred of them in the US. Not a lot of people know about it. But I’m at a school where 99 % of the people come from the Black community around the world. And I’m bumping shoulders with actual physicists. I’m bumping shoulders with people who are building their own AI models that got acquired by big companies. So I’m around people that look like me who are doing great things. And then I started to realize for young people, there’s a lot of people in every community globally that are successful, but the problem is they don’t come back. So then the kids who are still there, they might not think anything good can come from this community because they haven’t seen those people who left come back. So that’s why I still stay present.
[00:19:56.300] – Speaker 2
And it gives, like you said, I love that it gives hope for kids to see what’s possible. Knowing that you’re right, that the talent is everywhere, it’s how do we get that to come to the forefront and to find opportunities for them to live that out and express it. We know this to be true, Curtis, too. The more we have representation in all fields, but if we’re talking about STEM and specifically, the better the outcomes are going to be as well. To your point, as we all come from our different experiences, if we to create new systems, we need to do that together. The richness of a diverse experience and mindset in approaching these problems is huge. I love that the more we can have representation, not just for the kids who are looking to find people like them to see, to grow into that, it’s just going to ultimately make a better outcome for all the things that work for all of humanity. Kids It’s particularly as you’re growing up, especially in really diverse places like Toronto as well.
[00:21:05.560] – Speaker 1
No, for sure. I remember we highlighted something. I’ll shut up my border and land the bone real quick. But there’s one thing you said there, it’s better for outcomes. In addition to that, it’s also better for the bottom line. The most diverse businesses in the world are the most profitable and the most impactful. When you start to see people cut diverse teams beyond just race, we’re talking about all walks of life, usually when you cut those teams, you start to see innovation is not as fast happening at the or you’re losing money, or the impact is not the same. So representation and diversity beyond just race is beneficial for all societies.
[00:21:42.120] – Speaker 2
Let’s take a moment to talk about Miskoka Wood CEO Leadership Program. This isn’t just a summer program. It’s a stepping stone for your future. Teenagers can earn a grade 11 high school credit or complete community service hours, all while developing leadership skills in a supportive environment. Our team of passionate staff ensures every CEO has a remarkable and educational experience. Interested in joining this July or August? Find out more at mascokawoods. Com. I want to dive into AI a bit because it’s a bit of a topic now that everyone’s talking about. You have clearly jumped in two feet into this as there’s a major focus of how to leverage this for some of the things that you’re hoping to see in education and with young people. But I know for a lot of people, there can be a bit of a panic around it right now. Everyone’s freaking out, and what does this mean for jobs? Maybe can you speak to that first? How do you see AI factoring into the future of education and the future of workforce?
[00:22:53.940] – Speaker 1
Yeah, I think it’s going to change everything. We saw some stats recently that 40% of job skills that are in the current market won’t be needed in the next five years. We’re talking about close to half the market. That means new jobs are going to be created that didn’t exist before. I think there’s definitely an urgency around it. Also, I understand the panic as well, because then we’re starting to see how the headlines are written, typically, which is AI is going to replace XML jobs by this year, and AI changes every day, but then it takes 18 months for schools to approve of AI in the school. Then you have this situation where schools are chronically behind even before AI, and now they’re even worse in the worst position. I think the panic that’s there definitely makes sense. When I think I feel like the future of education, the future workforce, we’re going to start to see a lot of positive things where we’re going to see in-demand skills of the future, and then schools starting to better align themselves. So we’re actually teaching what kids need to be prepared for rather than teaching for the world that we were raising.
[00:24:02.320] – Speaker 1
So a lot of kids I talk about today is the way I teach coding is very different than how coding was taught a few years ago, because back in the day, coding was a very… Everyone’s getting a coding job. And now we’re at a point where The app I built in four months by myself, I can build in one minute with AI by just telling AI what to do. So then the goal is engineers aren’t going to disappear, but the engineering job is going to be reimagined. So what does that look like. So I think when I think of AI just factoring in itself in education, it’s more about all the stuff that was very tedious or took a long time or you had to have a lot of money for. Ai is going to be able to re-imagine what that looks like. And a good example is a tutoring. Tutoring is one of the most expensive things that underserved communities can’t have access to. And now we’re seeing a lot of AI tutor businesses that are showing some great outcomes for young people, right? So you see that being re-imagined. But then on the flip side, parents.
[00:25:05.860] – Speaker 1
When parents have to work, after parents have to sleep, you don’t have a lot of time to be in the know with what’s happening in the world, right? So as a parent, you always feel chronically behind. And I think the best thing parents need to understand is just how to just get into the sandbox. Because while you get into the sandbox, it’s something that we always say at work, is kids naturally They just tinker and play around and explore things. And usually when they first explore something, they’re very scared. But once they get their feet in, it gets familiar, and then they start creating things now. So I think for adults, we lose the act to explore and experiment and to toy around with things. So everything now is going to be more fearful because it’s easier to fear something you don’t know and you don’t understand. So usually what I think for parents is just finding ways to dive in. It could be something simple, right? The easiest way is following someone named Shanead Bovell. It’s S-I-N-E-A-D, Bovell, B-O-V-E-L-L, and a guy named Dwayne Matthews. These two individuals are the top two experts in AI in North America that explain AI and all the changes weekly and daily in layman’s terms.
[00:26:25.480] – Speaker 1
Layman’s terms. You don’t have to understand the terminology. You don’t have to understand anything. They’ll tell you about cyber safety, cybersecurity, what to know about where the future is going, what to do as a parent. These two are the best experts that I follow on a weekly basis that let me know what’s happening with the world. So you feel more prepared as a parent when you don’t have time to go through all the headlines, how to find a trusted source that can actually give you that information. And Shaneid is my go-to. Dwayne is getting so busy now that he started to stop posting. He said he’ll be back in September. But Shaneid, the number one expert in AI in layman’s terms, and she’s also an expert at the UN for the work she does. So she has a crazy story. I think she was a model, became an MBA grad, and then became an AI expert. It’s a crazy story.
[00:27:17.080] – Speaker 2
Thanks for those resources. I’m sure parents are going to rewind or take time to write that down so they can look it up. I know for me, this is true with AI, and I think for a lot of our listeners. Even as you’re explaining it, it’s like, Okay, yeah, I get that. But it still feels big and overwhelming. I love you gave us some practical examples of that. But I wonder if you can go a little bit deeper with what Shuriii does, because that’s really intriguing as well. You develop user friendly tools for teachers to bring students who are behind, back to grade level. You talked about identifying some gaps. Can you talk to even practically? Because I can think about theoretically what that’s like, but what are you are actually doing?
[00:28:01.340] – Speaker 1
I’ll bring you to the mind of the teacher. That’s probably the best way I can do it, is for teachers, day to day, they have 100 tabs open on their computer. They’re using 100 different digital apps for different subjects. They have stuff on paper, on Google Drive and on Microsoft OneDrive. So data is literally everywhere. And what makes it even worse is they’re one teacher that work with 35 kids. So for their day to day, they don’t really analyze all the data to properly pinpoint what to do, what’s working well, and what’s the best next step to get this kid to the next level, whether they’re behind or at grade level. And when we ask teachers, how do they currently solve the problem, it literally takes them about a few months to analyze all the data silos in order to properly pinpoint with accuracy what is working, what isn’t, and what should I do next. And usually the four to five months is report cards. So if you ask any teacher at report cards, what’s working, what’s not working, what should I do next for each student, they’ll tell you. But if you ask them for the four months prior, they couldn’t tell you.
[00:29:08.480] – Speaker 1
So at first, I’ll think, Oh, is this a teacher problem? So then what we did is we consolidated all the data silos. We just talked about. So instead of teachers working 100 places, they work from one tab. And by working from one tab, there’s automated analytics for all their data. So they know with accuracy what’s working, what’s not working, what to do next. And there’s a paper trail of reasoning and evidence of why that is the decision being made. So I think from there, we free up their time just to be with students. And we thought we solved it, but then it got even worse. We realized that in some schools, there could be anywhere from 10 to 20 teachers that work with the same kid, and they share data orally, over text, over email. So by the time it ends up in June, the data is deleted and doesn’t follow the kid to next September, so that teacher starts from scratch again in September.
[00:29:59.480] – Speaker 2
Oh, wow.
[00:30:00.380] – Speaker 1
So that’s when we realized this is a bigger problem than just the teacher. This is just how data is managed in schools. And that’s where we look at not only quantitative, but qualitative, because sometimes it’s not just numerically why the kid’s struggling. It’s something qualitative happening in the child’s life that’s impacting how they’re showing up. So we do both. We look at all data to make it holistic.
[00:30:25.540] – Speaker 2
Wow, that’s amazing. And I think, Curtis, you can correct me if I’m wrong. I don’t spend as much time as you do with teachers in education. But even if you’re a good intention teacher, you get all this data coming in. But typically, our response is to find a general solve for most of the students. We’ll approach it this way. Am I hearing you right that this actually allows a teacher to even cater how they journey with each individual students individually? Yeah. Because I know it’s hard. You got Like you said, you got 30 different students and all the inputs you’re getting on how this student is doing and what you’re trying to get as the outcome. It’s easy to just focus on the outcome and hope you squeeze as many kids towards that. But this is maybe approaching it differently, saying, these are the gaps and how do I custom and cater what I’m trying to get our students to learn and discover in unique ways that actually can approach multiple learners in the way that need it.
[00:31:30.700] – Speaker 1
Yeah, definitely. That’s what we do. That’s the difference you explain quickly. There’s a difference between a whole group instruction, everyone getting the same thing, and there’s a difference between personalized instruction and differentiated instruction, which is actually catering to each student where they’re at. That’s where we support them. Even if they have one topic or one lesson they’re doing, they can hit it from different angles for different kids, so they’re all getting engaged where they’re at.
[00:31:53.600] – Speaker 2
I love that. What advice would you give to parents and teachers who are raising or teaching kids in communities that are often excluded from conversations about advanced technology? How do we make sure that these kids don’t get left behind?
[00:32:08.680] – Speaker 1
This goes back to my earlier thing when I was explaining the Sandbox Reality. There’s a website called… I Is it the company called futurepedia. Io.
[00:32:19.200] – Speaker 2
No.
[00:32:19.720] – Speaker 1
So futurepedia. Io is one of the many websites, but there’s a repository of every AI tool that exists in the world on it. So you’re able to filter by category where you just, like I said, a sandbox. Just try things out. You don’t have to become an expert in it. And I find that a lot of parents I’ve connected with who just experiment with stuff from time to time, they start to realize both the positive side of it and the negative side of it. And I think when I give advice to parents is everyone’s focusing on AI, tech, the future of work. What we need to focus on first is cyber safety. And I think cyber safety is often missed. And how kids show up online is very important. I think before AI existed, when social media came out, the people who sounded the alarms in ’09 and ’10 said cyber Cybersafety, and we still haven’t solved Cybersafety for social media. We’re already more than a decade away from that. Now that AI is in the mix, Cybersafety is even more important because AI is a very different monster in the sense that there’s There’s positive sides of it.
[00:33:31.340] – Speaker 1
It can help us do things that we’ve never imagined before. It can help automate things to make them faster. But on the flip side, if kids are putting all their personal information into these AI systems, that’s It’s not a security-safety issue where it’s like, if you give personal information into these AI systems, they store your data and they use your data. Oftentimes, these systems aren’t built in a way that they’re secure and safe kids. A good example is Character AI. Have you heard of Character AI?
[00:34:04.280] – Speaker 2
Tell us a bit about that.
[00:34:05.700] – Speaker 1
Yeah. Character AI was… It’s like ChatGPT in the sense of it came out way before it was ready for the public. Character AI, a lot of kids had their own. You know the Tamagotchi days when we grew up?
[00:34:18.260] – Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.
[00:34:18.750] – Speaker 1
You remember the Tamagotchies? Imagine the Tamagotchi, but AI. And you have kids talking to this AI back and forth. As a parent, you might not think it’s an issue, which when it first came out, I didn’t think it was an issue until I started to look at how the technology was built. And what the system would do, because it wasn’t safe, it would hallucinate, which basically means it says something it shouldn’t say. And it actually created more depression and anxiety amongst young people. And in some cases, some kids were told by the AI system that they weren’t loved, no one cared about them. And this thing that was supposed to be a companion, the tech hallucination or the glitch led to a kid ending his life. So this is a huge concern. Like I said before, everyone’s focused on AI and the future workforce, when the number one thing should be cyber safety. Cyber safety is most important because it focuses on the mental health and well-being of our young people. And that’s an easier place to have a conversation with a young person about. And then the second step, once that’s there, is how do we use AI in a way that’s safe?
[00:35:27.840] – Speaker 1
Once you’re safe online, how do you use AI in a way that’s safe. And then once you figure that out, you can move on to the next step with, How can I use AI to help me day to day with school or work? So it’s like my assistant, but I do all the thinking. So I think the biggest advice would be I would say, cyber safety first, and then not fully relying on school to help you with everything, because the way schools are set up today, some teachers you might get are great, and some principals you get might be great as well. They might be in the know. But because their job is so busy teaching and running a school, they’re not up to date daily with what’s happening week over week, week over week. They’re like six months to a year behind on any given year I’ve been in school. So I would say the number one thing for young kids that I came across is a company called CyberLegends. I actually was in a program with them. And CyberLegends, basically, is for whether you’re homeschool or you’re in school. They ended up creating I mean, imagine a Sesame Street, but they did it for cyber safety.
[00:36:34.810] – Speaker 1
It’s a video game.
[00:36:36.120] – Speaker 2
Oh, wow.
[00:36:36.800] – Speaker 1
So they created a video game for young kids in elementary school where it’s play-based education, where they feel like they’re playing a video game, but They’re learning about all parts of cyber safety, how to be kind online, how to be healthy online, how to be secure, how to be positive, how to be informed. They have their own pillars of different things they do, and it’s very interactive and fun for kids. That’s a great one to get for elementary kids that I highly recommend. And I don’t recommend a lot of products. I’m skeptic of most, but this company is literally the best at what they do in the world. And it’s a Toronto area company. They’re based out of London.
[00:37:13.420] – Speaker 2
Yeah, and that’s cyber legend CyberLegends. Com. I’m just pulling it up as we’re talking. That’s great.
[00:37:18.080] – Speaker 1
Yeah, cyberlegends. Com. I know the founder, the story about him was he got lured online as a kid. And out of his own story, as a parent now, out, he never saw any changes since he was a kid. So he decided to create something that engages young people. So if young people like video games, get a video game and merge it with cyber safety, right? And same thing for parents here, find something that your kids are interested in, something that brings them to life and use that as a starting point to have these conversations. And that’s usually the easiest way for parents to connect with the young people on their turf, right? You always have to connect on their turf. Otherwise, it could feel like a lecture.
[00:38:00.260] – Speaker 2
Yeah, 100 %. No, that’s great. You’ve done a great job unpacking what parents can do as far as technology and where it’s headed. You spend a lot of your time in the STEM or steam world. And can you maybe give us some insight on what parents can do to nurture curiosity in those subjects as well, even beyond technology? How do we help our kids get interested in things that maybe they’re not even thinking about?
[00:38:28.800] – Speaker 1
I think the first thing I’ll explain first, because I was a STEM and STEM teacher, is that STEM always gets a merge into subjects. And I think what I’ve done in my career, because I have a different school of thought than most STEM teachers, and that school of thought is based on workforce. Development. And what I’ve noticed is science tech engineering math versus science tech engineering arts and mathematics, which is steam. These are basically just ways to solve problems that think across a lot of disciplines. So a good example might be, and if it’s a good example for parents to think about is, when I show up to young people in schools or in the community, I always find out what gets them annoyed or upset about life. And once I figure that out, we write that problem down and we do some market research on it very quickly. And then we realize how big the problem is. And then we say, how can we solve it using a STEM approach or a steam approach or entrepreneurship approach? And then they start to use these things that we just call tools to solve it from many different angles.
[00:39:33.640] – Speaker 1
So I think by doing that, you’re making kids without thinking an entrepreneur. That’s an entrepreneurship way of thinking. But really, it’s an activist oriented way to solve problems because you’re focusing on the community first. And then you look at the tools as a way to solve things rather than, I’m a STEM expert versus, I’m expert at all these problem areas, and I use STEM and all these approaches to solve it. So I think how parents can prepare their kids is knowing that being a master of one is not better than being a master of none. And in this world that we’re going in today, all the most high earning potential jobs for all the future projected roles that might exist, a lot of them are high on people called polymaths, which is a definition for someone who has a wide range of skillset, where they’re able to tackle any problem or solution from many different angles. So if I’m in the community and I have a toolbox of… I’ll give you an example of how my elementary kids think. We always go to the library when I was teaching, and they’ll grab a book from every aisle.
[00:40:41.400] – Speaker 1
And what the kids did is they had different information from different subject areas, and then they’ll glance at all the books, and then we’ll try to synthesize our thoughts and then approach a problem. And I think if parents approach it that way with their kids, they’ll start to realize you can know a lot of different areas and still I’m so specialized. For me, I’m a teacher. That’s what I do. But I’m also an AI engineer. I’m also an instructional coach. I’m also a curriculum consultant. I’m also an author. There’s so many things I can do from the one title, but the title isn’t the only thing I’ve skilled at. And I think that’s the best thing for parents to give them a surety that having a kid that’s exploring all these random things that might not be connected is probably the best gift you can have. Is a kid who is knowledgeable of a whole bunch of things, and anytime they face a problem, they’re going to be able to think about a lot of different ways to tackle it.
[00:41:35.400] – Speaker 2
That’s so helpful. You’ve unpacked a lot of resources for us throughout this conversation. And for teachers, they can definitely look up shurriii.com. Shuriii.
[00:41:50.170] – Speaker 1
Com. And if they reach out, I’ll actually send them their real website. We actually have a private website, so we get not bothered by certain companies.
[00:41:58.820] – Speaker 2
Sure, I hear. I hear you there.
[00:42:01.240] – Speaker 1
Yeah. A lot of people be reaching out wanting to, Hey, come to private school. I’m like, Hey, we’re not going there yet. We’re in charter schools or come into private. But if they reach out, there’s an email there, and I’ll send them the updated material.
[00:42:12.920] – Speaker 2
Any other resources just to share as we’re wrapping up our conversation that you think might be helpful for parents beyond the ones you’ve done to explore this a little bit more? Open the sandbox a little bit, as you mentioned?
[00:42:26.140] – Speaker 1
Yeah, definitely. I would say for young children, there’s a company called Bottle Math. Bottle Math is one of the top math apps in the world that’s getting kids caught up. It’s for K-6 kids. It’s an AI-powered video game. Super cool. I know the founder based out of Ohio, in Oklahoma. So that’s a good one. When it comes to this general AI stuff, some of the best things for parents to get tapped into would be if you’re able to, there’s a lot of local innovation hubs that exist in different communities. They’re usually connected with your local BIA. And these innovation hubs provide local events for parents, for community members on a wider range of topics where they bring in experts in the community. Those are great things to tap into. Those are just local BIA-connected innovation hubs, which are great. Another thing to look into is if parents are curious on the in-demand jobs that the government of Canada is thinking are coming to Canada, there’s something called KnotCodes, N-O-C, codes. If you Google Canadian notCodes, you’ll see the in-demand jobs that are coming for Canada. And that just gives them the ability to see some foresight of what’s happening in the country.
[00:43:44.660] – Speaker 1
The topper experts I did gave, they’re on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter. They make bite-sized content that can help you keep updated would be Sinead Bovill, I mentioned earlier. That’s S-I-N-E-A-D, and Bovill, B-O-V-E-L-L. And Dwyane Matthews. Those are the top experts that help parents prepare their kids for their future work. And it’s a big topic. I realize the more I know, the more I don’t know. I’m really good at what I do for my day to day. But when it comes to thinking about how to prepare our kids, the conversation will shift month over month. The best thing that will stay consistent is knowing that the future of work is going to change. The best way to prepare kids is to help them explore, make them curious. If they’re radically curious, then they’ll try a lot of different things. And you’ll be better positioned when a new job comes if you have a lot of different skills instead of just one. You’re more marketable.
[00:44:40.880] – Speaker 2
That’s great. So good. So helpful, Curtis. And maybe it’s just where Wrapping up, those people that track with this show and our listeners here will know my approach to the world is, yeah, there’s some vulnerabilities we always discern, but what keeps us going is the hope that we have, the virtue that we see. And so often, young people today in the media get a bit of a bad rap, and there’s negative stories about entitlement and lazy generation, all that type of stuff. You spend a ton of time, and I know you’re a hopeful guy with this next generation. Can you maybe share, just as we wrap up our conversation, you have a lot of hope for the next generation. What are you seeing today in young people that inspires you?
[00:45:27.220] – Speaker 1
Yeah, young people, they It helped me build every day. I think looking at them and having conversations. I’ve had conversations with kids in affluent communities and also long-term communities globally. I think they just see things differently. I think our generation and generations prior, we followed this quote where we’re constantly pulling people out the river. I think a lot of young people are looking upstream to find out why people are falling in. I think that’s inspiring because you’re seeing Gen Z in the younger population. They saw everything that didn’t work. So their mindset is to really think about things from a first principles perspective, which is, how did we get here? Because Curtis Carmichael got a degree, but he took a while to get a job. So they’re thinking about things differently. So I think for me, what inspires me is that they’re tackling problems that people in their 30s and 40s are still tackling in middle school, where you have kids who are going online, trying to figure out how to solve food security. I have a kid in grade 8 who’s trying to solve food security for their local community in Brampton. I have a high school kid I met in Hamilton area who got bullied for their crampeteet and ended up starting a lawnmower business with their friends to help get all kids who are bullied, racist.
[00:46:47.460] – Speaker 1
So their business was a social enterprise. So it’s just interesting to see that the young generation is taking things in their own hands and they don’t let age limit them. And I think that’s what inspires me, where it’s like, when I talk to them, I feel like I do a lot, but some kids are doing more than me. You have these kids in 4 of 30 under 30, they’re 13 years old. You know what I mean? And I’m like, yeah. So I think that’s what gives me hope is that they’re really trying to do it differently than we did from the get-go.
[00:47:21.480] – Speaker 2
That’s so good. And Chris, thank you so much for your time today. Totally inspiring conversation. It was just like I felt like I was Getting punched in a boxing match in a good way. Just so many great things to process and think through, and you provided a ton of resources. As someone known you for a long time, I’m just so proud and love the way you’re tackling. You’re doing exactly what you describe this next generation is doing is spending a lot of time thinking about why people are falling in the river and also helping them get out on the other side, too. So love what you’re doing. Really appreciate the time you gave to us. Thanks so much joining us.
[00:48:00.940] – Speaker 1
My honour. Thank you. It’s always a pleasure. And it all started at Muskoka Woods, so glad to be back.
[00:48:08.260] – Speaker 2
Well, that’s it for today’s episode. If Curtis Carmichael’s story and vision of education got you thinking about the power of technology, resilience, AI, and reimagining how we can support young people, be sure to head over to muskokawoods.com. There you’ll find a blog post with key takeaways from this conversation and a link to listen again. You’ll also explore how Muskoka Woods helps youth grow in confidence, character, and connection through transformative experiences rooted in creativity, challenge, and community. Don’t forget to subscribe to Shaping Our World and share this episode with someone, particularly a teacher you know who’s passionate about shaping the future through education, innovation, and purpose.
